Why did Kirk let Khan go at the end of Space Seed?

[TREK_GOD_1]

So they should be condemned for their idiocy, not praised for it. Their odds aboard the ship were demonstrably infinitely better than on the planet, after all.

A dying ship offered no safe haven. You would have condemned the crew to death. In the moment, beaming to a planet (not being consumed by the DDM at that time) was the better option.

Which is demonstrably the opposite of truth - using a starship for ramming finished off the beast, while using a shuttlecraft achieved nothing at all.

As FormerLurker pointed out, the Constellation was not used for "ramming" and it is clear that without Decker's successful run, no one would have dreamed up a way to destroy the DDM. They had no idea how to stop the DDM until Decker's run. No getting around that.

Which is besides the point anyway: if the DDM cannot be defeated, then it doesn't matter whether Starfleet even tries. But tagging along and trying is the way to go if Starfleet doesn't specifically want to wuss it out and let the UFP die.

It is the point--your point; "Tagging along and trying" produces no results. You seem to be handing out "A for effort," but in a combat situation, fruitless effort (a conclusion they reached with the ineffective Phaser attacks)--again--produces no results.

He lied to make the death of his monstrous friend look more heroic. That's simple enough, and perfectly in character.

To pretend that he believed in what he wrote would mean stating that Kirk is stupid. Not my preference here.

Kirk based his report on the man Mitchell was--the real man--not some changing creature who--as Spock predicted--

he'll have as much in common with us as we'd have with a ship full of white mice.

The Starfleet officer was not that creature, and despite your need to damn the entire life/character of the man--was not demonstrated as having any traits that would lead to the post-barrier character. The point of Kirk's episode-long shock and sense of tragedy was the night and day contrast between the real Mitchell and the altered being.

I don't have to. No court on Earth would even allow for you to ask the question in the first place. If a murder takes place, "he didn't show signs of it beforehand" is not an accepted argument and no defense.

I'm not sure what trials you have witnessed, but behavior before the alleged crime is often used to paint a picture of a defendant. This is not some Limbaugh-ian "born guilty--the end" system of justice.

 

[The Lensman]

Hell, I'm still wondering how Kirk managed to beat Khan in hand-to-hand combat...

That's why he's the goddamn captain.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Hell, I'm still wondering how Kirk managed to beat Khan in hand-to-hand combat...

That's why he's the goddamn captain.

Kirk had those steel bars installed into the engine room that week for a reason, goddammit.

The Starfleet officer was not that creature, and despite your need to damn the entire life/character of the man--was not demonstrated as having any traits that would lead to the post-barrier character.

I would argue that the human Gary Mitchell did show a few of the tendencies that the godlike Gary Mitchell showed -- Doesn't the story of him setting up Kirk with the blonde lab technician and "outlining her whole campaign for her" display a tendency to play god with his friend's life, just in a much more benign fashion?

Peter David also had a clever extrapolation on Mitchell's ESP abilities in the DC Star Trek Annual he wrote where Kirk met Mitchell at the Academy -- Mitchell had a photographic memory & so he never had to study that hard in his classes. It all just came naturally to him, so he never got into all the "longhair" stuff that his roommate Jim "stack of books with legs" Kirk read. That's a bit that's in my headcanon now.

So I'd say that the mutated Gary was many of Gary's worst tendencies taken to the nth degree -- particularly his ego. Dr. Dehner was much more rational and controlled than Gary, and maybe that played a part in why she held on to her humanity for longer.

 

[FormerLurker]

So I'd say that the mutated Gary was many of Gary's worst tendencies taken to the nth degree -- particularly his ego. Dr. Dehner was much more rational and controlled than Gary, and maybe that played a part in why she held on to her humanity for longer.

I would agree with both parts of this. Gary's worst tendencies got him in trouble more than once, as did his best tendencies; see that dart he took for Kirk. But since his best tendencies are cultivated, as are anyone's, and his worst, again as are anyone's, are inborn and lizard-brained, they will overwhelm the cultivated ones any time there is a power surge of any kind. Be it acquiring god-like powers, or getting elected to an office he has no business being in.

As for Dr. Dehner, yes, her rationality and self-control were cultivated to a much higher degree, because for whatever reason she felt she needed for them to be. But she could tell that she was losing control, and wanted no part of it. I think that's why she fought so hard against Gary the God Being. She didn't want to be like him, and used him to suicide by cop so she wouldn't reach that point.

 

[Timo]

A dying ship offered no safe haven. You would have condemned the crew to death. In the moment, beaming to a planet (not being consumed by the DDM at that time) was the better option.

Because it, too, offered no safe haven? Decker knew that much. Regardless of other factors, he knew that all planets in this neighborhood spelled absolutely certain death.

And as we found out, starships did not. But even that is beside the point: you don't go to the effort of transporting 430 people when you know for certain that the transporting will not improve their chances of ultimate surviving. If death is certain, having it take place on a planet within period X (weeks at most) is not superior to having it take place aboard the starship (where starship is supposed to be) within a few hours.

As FormerLurker pointed out, the Constellation was not used for "ramming" and it is clear that without Decker's successful run, no one would have dreamed up a way to destroy the DDM. They had no idea how to stop the DDM until Decker's run. No getting around that.

Nonsense. Decker had zero success, and there was zero indication that he had any sort of a plan he could be credited for when flying that shuttle. But if we for some weird reason want to credit him for what he did with the shuttle, then we can just as well credit him with a plan to ram his own starship down the throat of the beast: there's exactly as much evidence for such a thing, and it would at least insert a smidgen of sense to what we know Decker actually did (that is, beamed out his crew).

It is the point--your point; "Tagging along and trying" produces no results. You seem to be handing out "A for effort," but in a combat situation, fruitless effort (a conclusion they reached with the ineffective Phaser attacks)--again--produces no results.

So Decker deserves nothing but our contempt. We seem to agree on that at least.

But tagging along offers at least the hope of discovering a way to produce results. What Decker did offered no such hope; indeed, it removed any chance of such hope, by making the fight a personal duel between Ahab and Moby Dick and excluding Starfleet and its supposedly vast resources and expertise from the game.

Kirk based his report on the man Mitchell was

Which doesn't work in the real life: "He was a nice guy until he started smiting all these people" is a tragedy, not a defense.

I'm not sure what trials you have witnessed, but behavior before the alleged crime is often used to paint a picture of a defendant. This is not some Limbaugh-ian "born guilty--the end" system of justice.

It is true that the defendant is often turned into a picture in courts relying on the judgement of a layman jury. Sadly, certain systems even allow for the defense (but not the prosecution) to paint a picture of the victim, so that the guilt of the defendant is determined by the good grades the victim got at high school. But actual guilt is not dependent on whether the brutal murderer was a nice brutal murderer or a nasty brutal murderer. Mitchell's crimes are clear, and nobody is claiming they would be blamed on lil' Gary, age 12½ - they are being blamed on the man as we saw him, while he committed them, and cannot be excused by him having been cute at 12½. Or at 23.

Great analyses of the personalities of the perps, BTW!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Trekfan12]

What's "a lot"? In the thread I linked to above we found less than half a dozen instances of Kirk bending the truth in his log in 79 episodes.

I think that Kirk put a lot of details into his logs. I often wondered if he really needed to include the explicit details he included sometimes.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I admit I'm a bit disturbed by this tendency to make up excuses for Mitchell's behavior. Sure, the barrier mutated him, but it didn't take away his free will. Gary always had a choice to do whatever he did. And he never once said to himself "What's happening to me? Why can I do this? Where did this power come from? This is wrong!"

As @FormerLurker pointed out, Dehner realized what was happening to her and fought against it. Gary didn't. So I am tempted to conclude that Gary simply enjoyed his power.

(I mean, the simple addition of powers like this doesn't automatically mutate somebody into a megalomaniac. Riker didn't turn into one when he briefly became a Q, did he? And arguably the Q are far more powerful than Gary ever was...)

As for Kirk's log: I wonder how Lee Kelso's relatives (if he had any) thought about that log entry. Kelso is dead because of Gary, so I doubt they'd take kindly to Kirk just writing it off like that. I think Kirk just gave Gary a pass because of their friendship. If it had been just some random redshirt, I doubt Kirk would be that forgiving.

Yeah, yeah, I know, Gary didn't ask for what happened to him, yada yada yada. But if I walk up to a total stranger and hand them a loaded shotgun, and they use it to kill somebody, are you just gonna write that off too? They didn't "ask" for the gun, but they're still responsible for its use. Same story here, but to the Nth degree.

 

[DonIago]

I think it's fair to say that the barrier mutates people to the point where insanity is inevitable, and I don't like to accuse insane people of taking actions voluntarily. Dehner just held out longer than Mitchell.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Dehner absolutely gave her life in performance of her duty. I cannot say the same about Gary.

 

[Nyotarules]

Dehner absolutely gave her life in performance of her duty. I cannot say the same about Gary.

I think the barrier brought out tendencies that were already there. Kirk gave Gary a pass cos he was his best friend. I am surprised Prime Spock did not object to the false log entry. Kelvin Spock would have reported what really happened back to Starfleet Command.

 

[BillJ]

I think the barrier brought out tendencies that were already there. Kirk gave Gary a pass cos he was his best friend. I am surprised Prime Spock did not object to the false log entry. Kelvin Spock would have reported what really happened back to Starfleet Command.

Pretty sure Spock did file a report. He would be required to as well, being first officer, I would imagine. As would all the various department heads. The ship sustained quite a bit of damage and multiple people interacted with Mitchell, including Dr. Piper.

Kirk's would also have to report the death of Lee Kelso, and the cause. His comment on Mitchell was his personal feelings. Everything else is going to paint the more official story.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I admit I'm a bit disturbed by this tendency to make up excuses for Mitchell's behavior. Sure, the barrier mutated him, but it didn't take away his free will. Gary always had a choice to do whatever he did.

No he did not. Unlike Charlie Evans--who was bestowed incredible power, but retained his human self, Gary was transforming into something beyond anything even remotely connected to humans and their various ideas of morality, etc. He could not control that anymore than you could extinguish a forest fire by spitting at it.

As @FormerLurker pointed out, Dehner realized what was happening to her and fought against it. Gary didn't. So I am tempted to conclude that Gary simply enjoyed his power.

Dehner did not live long enough in mutated form to transform into a being like Mitchell, but her attitude toward Kirk (when she meets him) is leaning in that same direction of megalomania. In Mitchell's case, after the barrier, the Enterprise limped along long enough for Mitchell to mutate and lose most of his human self. Essential difference.

Yeah, yeah, I know, Gary didn't ask for what happened to him, yada yada yada. But think about this: If I walk up to a total stranger and hand them a loaded shotgun, and they use it to kill somebody, are you just gonna write that off too?

Astoundingly inapplicable analogy; your stranger with a gun is not fundamentally different--he's a regular human completely responsible for his actions. Gary was an altered, mutating being forever separated from his former human self and said self's moral grounding.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Gary was transforming into something beyond anything even remotely connected to humans and their various ideas of morality, etc. He could not control that anymore than you could extinguish a forest fire by spitting at it.

Even if I believed that - which I'm not sure that I do - it still doesn't explain why Gary doesn't realize (or care) what's happening to him. Dehner did, Gary didn't. How do you explain that? They were both zapped by the barrier at the same time.

And how would you expect Kelso's family to care about any of these hairs we are splitting?

In any case, I absolutely refuse to believe that Gary's death was in performance of his duty. Perhaps it was indeed an accident, but it's not the same thing. Exactly how did Gary's death advance the cause of his Starfleet career or that of his crewmates? How was his duty performed by that death? Elizabeth Dehner sacrificed her life to stop Gary, so HER death was in every way an exercise of her duty. Gary's was not.

Of course Kirk could have mentioned in his log that Gary was victimized by the energies of the galactic barrier and this caused him to mutate and go space crazy. That would have been an accurate retelling of events. But Kirk basically lied and said that Gary died in the line of duty, where in fact there was absolutely no indication of that specific thing.

Look, I'm not saying we shouldn't have any compassion for what Gary went through, but neither should we just forget it ever happened and use the barrier as justification. Like I said, what would you expect Lee Kelso's family to think about all this?

 

[Kor]

Perhaps Mitchell was more deeply affected (and affected sooner) because of his greater inherent ESP.

According to the personnel files displayed in the episode, his Esper Rating was 091, while Dehner's was 089. This sounds like a small difference, but his was described as "well above average," while hers was merely "better than average." Also, his Duke-Heidelburg Baloney Quotient was 261, while hers was 256. His Aperception Quotient was 20/104, and hers was 20/100. Whatever these made-up numbers are supposed to mean, it was clear that the effects were faster and worse on Mitchell than on Dehner.

Kor

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Mitchell was a jackass before the barrier hit, so I guess it's no surprise he was even more of a jackass AFTER it.

And I suppose it would be more enlightening if he had survived, and been cured, so we could have seen if he would have had any kind of remorse for what happened (like Garak did after DS9's "Empok Nor").

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Even if I believed that - which I'm not sure that I do - it still doesn't explain why Gary doesn't realize (or care) what's happening to him. Dehner did, Gary didn't. How do you explain that? They were both zapped by the barrier at the same time.

Watch the episode--he was transformed long before her. Moreover, Dehner did not necessarily care--she argued with Kirk about her increasingly superior status. Kirk had to plead and suffer torture before she helped him, otherwise, she would have fought Mitchell not long after she turned. That's easy to see.

And how would you expect Kelso's family to care about any of these hairs we are splitting?

Kelso's family? Why not say that about every crew member who died during the 5-year mission? As Kirk so eloquently pointed out, "Risk is our business!!" There's an inherent danger in serving in Starfleet, and Kelso's family--like every other crewman relative--had to understand, or at least expect that death was a possibility.

In any case, I absolutely refuse to believe that Gary's death was in performance of his duty. Perhaps it was indeed an accident, but it's not the same thing. Exactly how did Gary's death advance the cause of his Starfleet career or that of his crewmates?

Knowledge. The 1701 investigated the fate of the Valiant and until Mitchell's transformation, did not fully comprehend what happened to the ship, or the danger posed by the barrier.

How was his duty performed by that death?

See the reply above your quote.

Look, I'm not saying we shouldn't have any compassion for what Gary went through, but neither should we just forget it ever happened and use the barrier as justification. Like I said, what would you expect Lee Kelso's family to think about all this?

The barrier is the justification, as it is beyond question that he was not a megalomaniac before the effects of the barrier. Again with Kelso's family. Would Galloway's family think about his being disintegrated by Tracey? What would Tomlinson's family think about his dying during the Romulan encounter? You're trying to isolate the death of one as something particularly tragic, when the very nature of Starfleet missions carry the risk of death, no matter the cause.

Mitchell was a jackass before the barrier hit, so I guess it's no surprise he was even more of a jackass AFTER it.

You're the only one saying that. In-series, he was a friendly, likable man (not to mention Kirk's longtime best friend), which made his fall from humanity a tragedy. This was no Henoch or Khan situation--where the individual was corrupt from the start, thus their actions were predictable, or (after a time) expected. Mitchell was innocent, consumed by a force beyond any human comprehension--the reason the only response to the change was the Valiant captain destroying his own ship, and Kirk hunting Mitchell. There was no human answer to an irrevocably altered being, nor would one expect a human reaction.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Would Galloway's family think about his being disintegrated by Tracey?

At least Tracey survived to stand trial, so Galloway's relatives could have some closure knowing that the man who killed him would pay for it. They wouldn't have to just write it off and forget it ever happened.

And at least they would know that (as seems clear from the episode) Tracey was completely unrepentant and held no remorse for his crimes. No one will ever know if Mitchell would have had the same reaction to his.

Actually, this is one of those instances where the Kelvinverse version of the events is (IMHO) preferable. When the Kelvin comics do their own version of this episode, Mitchell actually begs Kirk to kill him before the powers could reassert themselves. Which gives at least some indication that the real Mitchell was still alive under all of that.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Actually, this is one of those instances where the Kelvinverse version of the events is (IMHO) preferable. When the Kelvin comics do their own version of this episode, Mitchell actually begs Kirk to kill him before the powers could reassert themselves. Which gives at least some indication that the real Mitchell was still alive under all of that.

You seem to be forgetting the moment when Mitchell is momentarily transformed back to normal. He looks contrite and says "Jim" in a manner that suggests he's sorry. That's pretty clear evidence that he was not in his right mind when he was in his altered state.

 

[MAGolding]

But why didn't Reliant notice that there was one fewer planet than there should be?

I'm wondering who's more at fault in that: Kirk, for not placing a warning beacon in orbit, or the Reliant crew, for being so sloppy that they didn't recognize what planet they were looking at.

Kirk failed badly by failing to put a warning beacon in orbit.

But words cannot express how badly the Reliant crew failed. The Ceti Alpha system was visited before "Space Seed".

KIRK: Mister Spock, our heading takes us near the Ceti Alpha star system.
SPOCK: Quite correct, Captain. Planet number five there is habitable, although a bit savage, somewhat inhospitable.
KIRK: But no more than Australia's Botany Bay colony was at the beginning. Those men went on to tame a continent, Mister Khan. Can you tame a world?

Kirk and Spock already knew about the conditions on Ceti Alpha V before the Enterprise ever reached the system. The Ceti Alpha system had been surveyed before "Space Seed". Thus the records on the system in the Reliant's computers should have exactly described the diameters, masses, element and isotrope comosiitn of surface material, densities, rotation periods, magnetic fields, surface features, atmospheric composition, and orbits of Ceti Alpha V and Ceti Alpha VI. It should have been totally impossible for the Reliant crew to mistake Ceti Alpha V for Ceti Alpha VI.

What would be the point of sending probes and starships to visit distant star systems if they didn't return iwth detailed records of all the major and many minor objects in those star systems, records detailed far more than is necessary to make it impossible to mistake one planet for another.? Such cursory examinations would certainly be a waste of time, manpower, money, and effort.

See also post # 140.

 

[MAGolding]

Either marooning Khan is fine with Starfleet and therefore does not warrant any special warning beacons because, you know, Starfleet is already fine with it - or then marooning Khan is against every regulation in the book and Kirk therefore tells nobody, and places no physical warning buoys nor virtual flags in the databases.

I don't really see the scenario where the buoys would do any good. If an approaching ship isn't already trained to avoid Khan, it won't respect the buoys: they just tell that there's something interesting down on the planet, and therefore no doubt worth examining closely. Especially since Starfleet claims it's a bad idea.

As for missing planets, those won't be noticed because, well, they are missing. There's no reason for a starship to note that something is not there unless an a priori reason exist to expect something to be there. And if Kirk didn't tell anybody about Khan (we never get the slightest hint that he would have told somebody), he wouldn't have filed a report on the details of the Ceti Alpha system, either. He was never supposed to have visited the place, after all.

Really, Terrell wanted to find the desert world of the system. How should he proceed?

a) Go to some theoretically correct coordinates and then look if there's a desert world there
b) Fly towards the system, scan for its desert world, locate it, and fly there

The second approach wastes no time and involves no detours. And there's no reason Terrell should give a damn whether the orbital parameters of the planet are this or that - the Genesis experiment won't hinge on orbital parameters. And the rest of the Ceti Alpha system is fantastically uninteresting and unworthy of any attention. Let some silly eggheads from the Anemic Collections Institute or the Uninteresting Errata Studying & Problematizing Agency come there and do charting if they really want to.

Jonathan Archer might have minded the specifics of the Ceti Alpha system. Terrell has a job to do.

Timo Saloniemi

You usually seem very intelligent, and a master of Star Trek lore, Timo, but this time you are forgetting dialog from "Space Seed":

KIRK: Mister Spock, our heading takes us near the Ceti Alpha star system.

SPOCK: Quite correct, Captain. Planet number five there is habitable, although a bit savage, somewhat inhospitable.

KIRK: But no more than Australia's Botany Bay colony was at the beginning. Those men went on to tame a continent, Mister Khan. Can you tame a world?

This dialog proves that the Enterprise in "Space seed" was not the first starship to visit Ceti Alpha. The popular idea that the Enterprise discovered Ceti Alpha V is false. If it was correct Spock would have said something like: "We are now charting the planets and number five is habitable, although a bit savage, somewhat inhospitable."

Kirk and Spock already knew about the conditions on Ceti Alpha V - before changing course to go there - because the Ceti Alpha system had already been surveyed. They might have been to Ceti alpha V before, but probably got their information from checking the records of the Ceti Alpha system. Thus the Federation and Starfleet database would already have accurate.and detailed information about all the planets in the system. Even if Kirk never told anyone about stranding Khan, the Reliant's database would have detailed enough information that it would be impossible for them not to notice that two planets were missing from their calculated positions, and that there was one planet where no planet should be.

I think that as the Reliant approached the system and the largest planets were detected in their proper positions and then two of the smaller planets were seen not to be in their calculated positions that should have caused a panic aboard, wondering if some menace like Nomad, The Doomsday Machine, or the Space Amoeba was in the system. And then Chekov should have remembered why the name Ceti Alpha seemed so familiar.

See post # 139.

I once wrote a story in which it was claimed that Spock informed the Vulcan Board for Correcting Human errors who sent an expedition to round up Khan's people and take them to a reorientation colony where they were "Vulcanized". The "augments" seen in WOK were said to be android doubles as part of a very elaborate masquerade for complicated reasons.

If anyone can ever come up with a convincing explanation for the mistake of the Reliant crew they should be considered a hero of Star Trek fandom.