Why did Janeway choose the long way round?

[Guy Gardener]

Exactly.


Believing that there were ships magically exploring the inbetween some 20 years out from the federations heart who could instantly receive new orders to change course, deviating on two decade old instructions to "go where no man has gone..."

By season 6 the Dominon were allies with the federation, that closest edge of Domion space would have been even closer to Voyagers whereabouts that the mouth of the wormhole, that "Odo" could have sent aid himself which might have arrived ever faster than the explorer ships.

"sigh"

 

[JB2005]

If Starfleet dispatched the ships as soon as Voyager made contact, then they would already have been travelling for two years.

For arguments sake say they travelled about 2000 lightyears per year (deep space vessels at maximum cruising speed would be able to go along way in a hurry). They were already 4000 Light years towards Voyager when Janeway got the message. In Another 6 years they'd have gone 12000 light years (16000 over all) and Voyager would have gone 9000 light years (Assuming that they were going 1500 lightyears a year, a'la night)

Now the Klingon Empire expands deep into the Beta Quadrant, so if we make the assumption that it's farthest point is 5000 light years from Earth and the Ships were around there when they were dispatched, it is doable (ish)...

Maybe 6 years was optomistic. But they could have been rendevoused inside adecade, even if the ships set off from Earth.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Deep range explorer ships that were already out there exploring deep space for the sake of it.

Probably cartographers with a meet and greet options just the same as Kirk or Archer.

They were retasked to go meet Voyager because they were already out there and the closest ships starfleet had, which...

The Olympus in DS9 The sound of her voice, was on an 8 year mission to explore somethign or another and was completely out of contact with the federation that it's captain was(n't?) quite surprised to hear about the Dominon War.

The loss of a couple dozen ships during the battle of Wolf 359 supposedly decimated the fleet. Althoguh a couple years later in ds8 it would seem that Starfleet had thousands of capital ships... One might assume that they had to be called in from hundreds and hundreds of deep space exploration and science missions extending the rim of known space.

Remeber what Picard said in Insurrection? "Do you remember when we used to be explorers?"

 

[Toban Kal]

The Olympus in DS9 The sound of her voice, was on an 8 year mission to explore somethign or another and was completely out of contact with the federation that it's captain was(n't?) quite surprised to hear about the Dominon War.

I see what you mean, but the Olympus doesn't count. She was operating in a different time frame.
I think those long range ships have minimum, rather than no contact with the federation. if they had none, how would they receive new orders. So surely even a ship deep in space on an 8 year mission would have recieved the news that the federation was at war. that's why it was such a surprise to her.

Still I think 6 years to rendevous with Voyager was too optimistic. Had to be 10 at least. Provided both ships fly towards each other constantly and only stop to mine some fuel and gather supplies.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Remember it was Bob Picardo who wrote the script, but the whole "we still hate the maquis" throwaway lines as well seemed very Dark for Voyager, so I have to wonder if this added later or in Bobs original script and all the actors on board were hungry for some darker edges to their daily work?

The Midas array can be used to talk to anyone and not just Voyager. So the nature of being out of contact with Starfleet had just been recently redefined completely.

Besides the Explorer ships if they were worth their salt would have been dropping buoys, benchmarks and subspace radio transceiver boosters to aid in the advancement of civilization building for whatever federation colonists are following in their wake looking for a new how, similar to how post offices were built in the American west defining manifest destiny and pushing the natives back towards the sea.

I loved it on Enterprise that once, when they dropped a subspace radio transceiver booster and I said to myself, "fuck me, they're just like Romans building Roads, bridges and aqueducts". Go Archer! Boom! Bad guys did bad stuff, explosions and screaming later the notion was never glanced on again, but it was a heartening special effect.

The Olympus does too count. She was out of contact for 8 years. Just a completely different 8 years than Sisko thought. But she was so out of contact with the homefront so completely that her Captain thought that the Dominion war was occurring halfway through Picards run without batting an eyelash.

8 years is 8 years.

And besides, that wasn't the plotted duration of their mission, just how long they way before they screwed the pooch and kicked the bucket. They could have had another 8 years till their job was complete and they could return home for all we know?

 

[Fish1941]

I just figured this the other day when I saw this map on my Star Trek screen saver.

Voyager's location is marked in the left corner in orange.
She then chose to go all the way across the Delta quadrant with the intention of crossing the Beta quadrant to get back to federation space and Earth.
BUT, wouldn't it have been quicker to go across into the Gamma quadrant and reach the Idran end of the Bajoran wormhole (marked on the left side of the map in yellow)? From the look of things it would have taken about half the time to reach the wormhole and get back into the alpha quadrant.

When Janeway left she would have known about the wormhole. She didn't know about the Dominion or the Jem Ha'dar. (not sure about spelling.)
I suppose by the time she got there the Dominion side of the wormhole would have been in contest and she wouldn't have had an easy time getting through, but probably an easier time than she had getting back to the alpha quadrant via the long way around.

So why did she choose the long way? It makes no logical sense.

Your post makes no logical sense. How in the hell was Janeway supposed to know what part of the Delta Quadrant she was in, when the damn area was unmapped? All she knew was that she was 70,000 light years away from the Alpha Quadrant, thanks to the ship's navigation readings.

 

[Michael]

Your post makes no logical sense. How in the hell was Janeway supposed to know what part of the Delta Quadrant she was in, when the damn area was unmapped? All she knew was that she was 70,000 light years away from the Alpha Quadrant, thanks to the ship's navigation readings.

So you're saying the navigational readings tell them exactly how far away they are from home, but they don't tell them where they are?

 

[apenpaap]

I think even if it was closer, Janeway would probably have decided to use the long way. She left during mid-season 3 of DS9, and at that point the Dominion had already destroyed the USS Odyssey and New Bajor. Also the Bajhoran Wormhole might've collapsed.
(There should be an alternate universe somewhere out there, btw, where she decided to set a course for the bajoran wormhole, somehow made it in only three years, managed to avoid the Dominion, Voyager flew through the wormhole... And got destroyed by Rom's minefield.)

That map looks very unlikely, btw. The Federation is at least 5000 lightyears in diameter, which would mean starships would take 5 years to cross from one side to another. Also, Federation space is larger then Dominion and Borg spaces on that map.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The dominion has been expanding for 12 thousand years. They're plenty big.

Remember triangles at school?

Janeway travelled 40 KLY without leaving the Delta quadrant or approaching one of it's boarders.

Earth is pretty close to the galactic barrier.

(trek)Maps(I looked for real ones but it was just like in Prisoner.) I scanned put us at about 5 to 10 KLY from the edge of the galaxy, ie some 40 to 45 kly to the borders crossing the central axis of the galaxy separating us from the gamma and delta quadrants.

Then of course Janeway was following an elliptical path that the course home that was mesuarably longer than as the crow flies since she would still have to stay close to civilizations and resources for the requirements of her ship and crew.

But if voyagers drop off point and the bajoran wormhole are both 70 kly from each other and earth, then either point in space is barely 5 to 10 kly axial boarder of the galaxy.

Morons can't count.

And they probably got daily hate mail on the subject diverted to a land fill.

 

[Tachyon]

... meaning it would have been to complicated for the average (non-Trek fan) viewer.

But only trek-fans would have watched it.

Only Trek fans did watch it.

You are wrong.

 

[apenpaap]

But only trek-fans would have watched it.

Only Trek fans did watch it.

You are wrong.

Yes. My father watched it, and he's not a Trek fan at all.

 

[Anwar]

The Bajoran Wormhole was decades away as well, not that close. Also there was the potential that it may have been closed or destabilized in the decades it would take to get there.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It "should" have been half the distance and it had been open for ten thousand years.

Janeway forgot about the bazarn wormhole, the cytherian space folding civilization or the Borg.

She might have been a drunk?

That would explain the bun.

Sick of getting vomit in her hair.

 

[Anwar]

The Barzan Wormhole was unstable, which is how those Ferengi got marooned to begin with.

The Star Charts book shows that the Wormhole wasn't that much closer than Earth.

The Cytherians? How were they to contact those guys?

The Borg, well they DID start using them to travel more...

 

[Guy Gardener]

The Cytherians lived in the centre of the galaxy, which was more than within range of sending a one man mission towards in Primefactors before Seska and Tuvok stole that tech and alienated their hosts.

Whether the Bazarn wormwhole was "unstable" or not, it should have been a hail mary worth keeping tabs on, but in Janeways log during the episode in question, she was only just then discovering that such things ever happened that a wormwhole was there and there might be Ferengi out there beginning their own empire.

Sure it was just exposition to let the audience in the know, but I had been screaming about this germ of this episode for two years. So, you just had to wonder how much faster janeway could have got to this region of space if they were aiming for it rather than fell upon the situation by accident? Months? Maybe a year?

Women ask for directions my ass.

 

[Fish1941]

Your post makes no logical sense. How in the hell was Janeway supposed to know what part of the Delta Quadrant she was in, when the damn area was unmapped? All she knew was that she was 70,000 light years away from the Alpha Quadrant, thanks to the ship's navigation readings.

So you're saying the navigational readings tell them exactly how far away they are from home, but they don't tell them where they are?

Exactly. All they knew was that they had traveled at least 70,000 light years from their last coordinates in the Alpha Quadrant. Are you trying to tell me that they should have known where they were, considering that Starfleet had no maps of the Delta Quadrant?

 

[TheGodBen]

Exactly. All they knew was that they had traveled at least 70,000 light years from their last coordinates in the Alpha Quadrant. Are you trying to tell me that they should have known where they were, considering that Starfleet had no maps of the Delta Quadrant?

Yes. When Sisko and Dax first travelled through the wormhole in Emissary they knew where they were and what star system they were near, and that too was 70,000 light years away from where they were. There is no reason to believe that Janeway didn't know what part of the DQ she was in. Besides, if she knew they travelled 70,000 light years then all she would need to do to triangulate her position is locate the centre of the Milky Way (easy), locate the Andromeda galaxy (probably easy for 24th century sensors) and presto, she knows where she is.

 

[Michael]

All they knew was that they had traveled at least 70,000 light years from their last coordinates in the Alpha Quadrant.

But how can they verify they traveled 70.000 light years when they don't know where they are? If they really don't know where they are, how do they know how far they are away from where they started?

EDIT: And once again GodBen says it even more eloquently.

 

[Fish1941]

Yes. When Sisko and Dax first travelled through the wormhole in Emissary they knew where they were and what star system they were near, and that too was 70,000 light years away from where they were. There is no reason to believe that Janeway didn't know what part of the DQ she was in.

Your response makes no sense whatsoever. The Federation had NO MAPS of the Delta Quadrant. The Enterprise-D had not been in the Delta Quadrant long enough for any extensive maps.

Your response also convinces me that DS9 may have committed a blooper. How in the hell did Sisko and Jadzia knew exactly where they were in the Gamma Quadrant, when they were the first from the Alpha Quadrant to appear there?



Harry checked Voyager's sensors after the ship was drawn into the Delta Quadrant. The sensors read that they were 70,000 light years from their last position in the Alpha Quadrant. It didn't reveal exactly WHERE they were in the Delta Quadrant, considering they didn't have any maps of that part of the galaxy.

 

[Michael]

How in the hell did Sisko and Jadzia knew exactly where they were in the Gamma Quadrant, when they were the first from the Alpha Quadrant to appear there?

From the dialog of Emissary ...

SISKO
Idran... that can't be right...

DAX
Computer, basis of identification...

COMPUTER VOICE
Identification of Idran is based on the hydrogen-alpha spectral analysis conducted in the twenty-second century by the Quadros-One probe of the Gamma Quadrant.

The sensors read that they were 70,000 light years from their last position in the Alpha Quadrant.

So, how exactly do the sensors know they are 70.000 light years from their last position?