*Why* are TNG Seasons 1 & 2 Bad?

[Paradise City]

Well, the first season is very much Roddenberry's baby. Doing what Roddenberry 'always wanted to do' -- to borrow the man's own words. So they were trying to grope around searching for an equilibrium that would make it workable within the tight boundaries of the Roddenberry "vision", a "vision" somewhat retrospectively arrived at and a vision that restricts where you can go with the storytelling. The writing team was also just ad-hoc and unstructured.. The result is alot of very wobbly, sometimes very preachy stuff trying to agree some sort of conception as to what a 24th century utopia would look and sound like. As Roddenberry himself declined in influence, these features also receded.

 

[Vger23]

Well, the first season is very much Roddenberry's baby. Doing what Roddenberry 'always wanted to do' -- to borrow the man's own words. So they were trying to grope around searching for an equilibrium that would make it workable within the tight boundaries of the Roddenberry "vision", a "vision" somewhat retrospectively arrived at and a vision that restricts where you can go with the storytelling. The writing team was also just ad-hoc and unstructured.. The result is alot of very wobbly, sometimes very preachy stuff trying to agree some sort of conception as to what a 24th century utopia would look and sound like. As Roddenberry himself declined in influence, these features also receded.

Ironically, I think Roddenberry devised "what he always wanted to do" long after he was the TOS show runner.

 

[Emperor Norton]

Ironically, I think Roddenberry devised "what he always wanted to do" long after he was the TOS show runner.

It was his George Lucas "Special Edition"/Prequel era.

 

[Vger23]

It was his George Lucas "Special Edition"/Prequel era.

Perhaps.

What I mean is that he seemed to develop his utopian, holier-than-thou, "humans have evolved" mindset after TOS gained popularity in the early 70's syndication runs...when he decided to be opportunistic and "explain" Trek's appeal through it's high-brow philosophy and visionary outlook of humanity.

You know...rather than just saying..."It's a cool, colorful, action/adventure show with awesome characters..." because that's boring and nobody will pay you to come speak about that.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't that frequent in them all? Or are we not talking about the same 'others'. I'm thinking the extras. "scenery".



I'm going to second the bad musical score and visual affects like that lattice work that was chasing down The Enterprise (by Q) (wtf)

Maybe 'theme' was the wrong choice of words. I mean, the people they meet any given week act like Westworld robots. They can't see anything outside their personal track.

 

[BillJ]

What I mean is that he seemed to develop his utopian, holier-than-thou, "humans have evolved" mindset after TOS gained popularity in the early 70's syndication runs...when he decided to be opportunistic and "explain" Trek's appeal through it's high-brow philosophy and visionary outlook of humanity.

He was lecturing on college campuses during the time. He was just feeding the bolognium he thought they wanted.

 

[Emperor Norton]

Perhaps.

What I mean is that he seemed to develop his utopian, holier-than-thou, "humans have evolved" mindset after TOS gained popularity in the early 70's syndication runs...when he decided to be opportunistic and "explain" Trek's appeal through it's high-brow philosophy and visionary outlook of humanity.

You know...rather than just saying..."It's a cool, colorful, action/adventure show with awesome characters..." because that's boring and nobody will pay you to come speak about that.

The element of the future being better and humanity being better was there even in TOS, but it did take on the characteristic of the future and humanity and all the characters being absolutely perfect by TNG. In TOS, humanity solved the major problems of the 1960s. In TNG, humanity solved all the problems, including the human soul. Every human being was the paragon of perfection.

 

[Vger23]

The element of the future being better and humanity being better was there even in TOS, but it did take on the characteristic of the future and humanity and all the characters being absolutely perfect by TNG. In TOS, humanity solved the major problems of the 1960s. In TNG, humanity solved all the problems, including the human soul. Every human being was the paragon of perfection.

In TOS, it was more about humans working together to overcome their weaknesses and barbaric make-up, despite those elements being present. In TNG it was about having evolved beyond those elements.

I agree that there are distinctions!

 

[Voth commando1]

Where no man has gone before is the best episode of season 1.

 

[Paradise City]

Ironically, I think Roddenberry devised "what he always wanted to do" long after he was the TOS show runner.

Well, it's even more basic than that. The 'Roddenberry vision' is just one choice between two when you are coming up with a show set in the future.

Do you go in a:

A) dystopian direction where man has regressed.

B) utopian direction where man has progressed.

Roddenberry picked "B".

It's a nice vision but an intuitive one requiring no "visionary". To give him his due, he presented his future well.

And as for that first season, it's commendable they included characters like Admiral Jameson and his story.

 

[Sakonna]

I actually believe that the first 2 seasons of TNG are unique in their feel and execution, but I don't view them as "bad." It was a different kind of show with a different focus in those first 2 years.

I actually really like the first 2 seasons of TNG. There's a quaint nostalgia about them that I find very endearing and comforting. I actually find them much more re-watchable than some of the bland crap from S6 and S7. Those later seasons often remind me of really bad Voyager episodes rather than good TNG.

There's an interesting thing with the first two seasons, where the further we get from original airing, the "better" they become... or, at least, the more enjoyable to rewatch. It's just such a strange mix of things going on, the earnestness and the spookiness and the dreamy music, all the rough edges and haphazard construction of the stories. But the fantastic cast chemistry is there from the beginning... the actual characters aren't properly developed, some of the performances still have a ways to go, but the energy of the ensemble is great from the jump, and that compensates for a lot.

Also, another thing that distinguishes these seasons for me is that you feel the vastness of space more in the first two seasons of TNG than you do in... well, any other Trek, really. It really feels like they're out on their own in this vast, mysterious void where any weird thing might pop up, and they only have themselves to rely on to handle it (even moreso than in Voyager, where that's the entire premise of the show)

I liked the first two seasons. Almost any episode that was bad was also hilarious. Datalore for example. When Lore gets switched on, it's just pure comedy all the way through.

So true. I had avoided "Datalore" for years because I remembered finding it utterly unwatchable. I checked it out recently, out of curiosity over the redone effects for the Crystalline Entity, which sucked me in to watching the episode as a whole, and I was in hysterics. It's brilliant, as comedy. I had forgotten that "shut up Wesley!" was a thing that actually happened on screen! I thought that was just an internet joke!

 

[Tosk]

A) dystopian direction where man has regressed.

B) utopian direction where man has progressed.

No C? (Mankind hasn't changed at all.)

 

[Emperor Norton]

No C? (Mankind hasn't changed at all.)

TOS was between B and C. Things were better, people had overcome racism, but humans were still human. TNG initially went totally B, where even humans were perfect and had no drives or instincts (such as disagreement, anger, jealousy--still a sex drive, though, wherever it could fit since Roddenberry had a focus on that). But no personal goals meant no personality. They reeled that back with Michael Piller, where they were human, albeit in a better future where people acted better but were still people. And DS9 went the route of taking that even further, where humans are only as morally better as they are because they built a utopian environment and without it they degenerate into the worst base instincts and drives. So DS9 is option C.

 

[Paradise City]

Looking over the slate of first season episodes on Memory Alpha there, most of them are quite adequate.. There's just two or three really bad stinkers, others have predictable outcomes and others still suffer from abysmal production values. About a seven or eight of them are strong episodes though that carry a standard that's there throughout the series.

 

[Paradise City]

No C? (Mankind hasn't changed at all.)

Sure. But it's counter-intuitive to create a futuristic show where humanity has just remained static. A bit of a damp squib that one.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

There's a few stinkers in season 1. I never liked Haven or Angel One

 

[Sakonna]

This thread inspired me to watch some TNG season 1, and I picked "Where No One Has Gone Before", which is one I don't think I've seen since the 90's.

Yep, this is a deeply strange hour of television! I had forgotten (or been too young to pick up) what a creepy pedophile vibe those Wesley/Traveler scenes had. And the resolution is that they use the power of positive thinking to fly themselves across the universe. Positive thinking, and hand-holding between Wesley and the Traveler, can't forget that the hand-holding is the secret ingredient

And in watching later season 1/2 eps, I kept wondering, how the hell did they justify making Wesley an ensign again? Here I see: oh yeah, Picard did it because a magical space pedophile asked him too.

It's all so hilariously weird.

And the next episode up is:

4) Selective valuation of life. Some lives were a tragedy to lose and others were laughed off. An ambassador was murdered and asked to be prepared as food and it was treated as a gag.

"Lonely Among Us"! Also insane! The light comedy treatment of murder & cannibalism. Of an ambassador! And the preachiness about not eating meat, oh god the preachiness.

It's also funny to think Marc Alaimo is inside that terrible rubber head playing the lead Antican.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

And here I was thinking he was made ensign due to Picard and Crusher knocking boots

 

[The Wormhole]

4) Selective valuation of life. Some lives were a tragedy to lose and others were laughed off. An ambassador was murdered and asked to be prepared as food and it was treated as a gag.

That episode really had everyone reacting strangely to death. Earlier in the episode when the assistant engineer was killed, the entire senior staff indulge Data in his Sherlock Holmes imitation and laugh with him until Picard gets after him for smoking a pipe. Yes, smoking a pipe is a no-no, but making light of the death of a fellow officer is apparently fine.

 

[Nebusj]

Not enough network interference.