CaptainJack
Lieutenant Commander
^^^So how did that turn out?
Why are the Borg obsessed with Humans / Earth?
- Thread starter Deimos Anomaly
- Start date
Q introduced the Federation to the Borg not the other way around. The Borg already knew about the Federation before Q did anything, as indicated in the first season TNG episode the Neutral Zone.
It's funny, considering the sorry state the Trek franchise is in, I thought more people would be reading the books. As thanks to Nemesis, Voyager and Enterprise it's the only way we will ever see non JJ Abrams Star Trek stories again.
^I seriously doubt JJ's the only guy who will EVER deal with Star Trek again.
^And Guinan's people, fleeing the Borg in Generations, were rescued by the Enterprise-B.
And Captain Archer was fighting them 200 years earlier.
And Captain Archer was fighting them 200 years earlier.
That was one of the stupidest retcons in Star Trek.
Doesn't mean that she or any other El-Aurian gave any specifice details about the Borg. It wasn't like the Borg attacked their home, they fled and a few days later were picked up by the Enterprise. It is more likely that years passed from the time of the attack in the Delta Quadrent to the time they reach our Solar system. The El-Aurians probably didn't give many specific details about what happend, and the Fed government proably didn't pry because it happened so far away.
That episode is one of many reasons why I hate Enterprise.
The Hansens didn't know about the Borg, nor did the Federation. They just were explorers who were out there looking for stuff like how folks go around looking for Sasquatch or random UFO sightings.
Unfortunately, the Hansens found their UFOs.
The Borg assimilating ships before "Q Who?" fits. Because the Borg already had attacked the Federation earlier in "The Neutral Zone".
Unfortunately, the Hansens found their UFOs.
The Borg assimilating ships before "Q Who?" fits. Because the Borg already had attacked the Federation earlier in "The Neutral Zone".
Not quite. The Hansens knew there was a race of cybernetic beings that was active in the Beta Quadrant past the Romulan Neutral Zone, and they knew the race was called the Borg. In "Dark Frontier," flashbacks establish that the Federation Council on Exobiology authorized the Hanson expedition, and Starfleet security concerns were mentioned. Thus, it stands to reason that Starfleet and the Exobiology Council were both aware of the same rumors and sensor echoes that the Hansens wanted to chase.
Related to this whole issue of Federation knowledge of the Borg pre-"Q Who" is this quote from Memory Alpha:
Joe Menosky said:
You're going to nitpick on who was introduced to who first? Please. "Q" put the Enterprise in the path of a Borg cube. It was a "mutual" introduction. Anyway, enough of this triviality.In the episode "The Neutral Zone", a late Season 1 episode, we aren't told if the outposts were destroyed by the Borg. It was an idea to be so, but it was later dropped because of the writer's strike. In "Q Who", Guinan and Picard have a conversation:
GUINAN: Q set a series of events into motion, bringing contact with the Borg much sooner than it should have come. Now, perhaps when you're ready, it might be possible to establish a relationship with them. But for now, for right now, you're just raw material to them. Since they are aware of your existence
PICARD: They will be coming.
The whole implication made here is that this is their first introduction to the Borg. If "The Neutral Zone" was really it, so what... the Borg found a few outputs and assimilated the technology. They didn't necessarily know of the extent of the Romulan and Federation presence. But we later learn from this encounter that the Borg decide to explore the Federation further, in the season that follows. The implication was this introduction "formalized" their awareness.
CaptainJack
Lieutenant Commander
Can we all agree that the Borg having Transwarp really limits them in terms of what can be done with them? I mean, the Borg would still be badass and scary and lethal, but they just cant cross the entire galaxy in 30 seconds either. It makes it too easy for them to drop 8000 cubes on Earth if they want to. And they never really explain "why" the Borg dont do this.
It would be best if there was a reason that they cannot use the Transwarp system. Something like, the nanites cant survive the transwarping or something. If you get rid of Transwarp, the Borg as seen make more sense.
It would be best if there was a reason that they cannot use the Transwarp system. Something like, the nanites cant survive the transwarping or something. If you get rid of Transwarp, the Borg as seen make more sense.
Just explain that the Delta Quadrant is loaded with aliens all on the same level as the Borg, the Borg are in constant conflict with them and can stalemate them most of the time (they get beat up the rest of the time) and they just can't allocate the resources for a real invasion outside of the Delta Quadrant.
They tried that in "Scorpion" but folks couldn't handle the idea of there being anyone else on the same level as the Borg.
Data said that the scans of the J-25 planet the Borg attacked were identical to what happened to the Neutral Zone outposts. It was the Borg.
They tried that in "Scorpion" but folks couldn't handle the idea of there being anyone else on the same level as the Borg.
Data said that the scans of the J-25 planet the Borg attacked were identical to what happened to the Neutral Zone outposts. It was the Borg.
Who? What folks do you speak of? Did the production staff publicly state that they received feedback from the fans that they didn't like the presence of a species more powerful than the Borg?
Actually, Shelby: "The initial descriptions of these surface conditions are almost identical to your reports from system J two five." It is an inference about scans of another system, but nothing about J-25 corresponds to what was described in "The Neutral Zone" episode. Looks to me like she's referencing something more recently scanned.
Reactions to every single appearance of the Borg in VOY speak for themselves (hell, even the friggin Borg CORPSE from Blood Fever). TNG never showed us any species out there tough enough to rival the Borg (even though Q said there were many) and that led to the belief that there were none. "Scorpion" shattered those illusions, which provoked a negative reaction.
I mean in "Q Who?" itself Data says that what happened to J-25 was identical to what happened to the Neutral Zone outposts.
DATA
There is a system of roads on the
planet which indicate a highly
industrialized civilization. But
where there should be cities there
are only great rips in the
surface.
WORF
It is as though some great force
just scooped all machine elements
off the face of the planet.
DATA
It is identical to what happened
to the outposts along the Neutral
Zone.
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I'm asking about where you're referencing these reactions, what people and what source communicated these reactions. I didn't get the impression that the Voyager production crew were combing the Internet looking for specifics (there wasn't much available during the series run). They were all about ratings numbers. And actually, "Scorpion" I and II both did very well.
"Shattered illusions." Whose illusion? Yours and a few reactions on TBBS? Or was there a formal poll taken of the fanbase published somewhere that reflected this? There's always something stronger out there. Assuming the Borg were the most powerful would be naive. In TNG, they were the most powerful encountered thus far. Q makes it very clear that there are other powerful species out there.
Ah yes. I see it now, in the "Q Who" transcript. I was looking for "J-25" or "J two five". Thanks.
Don't bother asking that question or, really, even engaging at all when such a vague statement is made. Anwar consistently refers to alleged reactions from nebulous individuals and never provides a concrete identification. He's always rehashing (apparently) old criticisms from his years of defending VOY, regardless of whether or not anyone except him even brings up those criticisms in any given thread.
If the Fandom (and I mean people I actually watched the show with, since I wasn't big on the Net back then) felt that way back when "Scorpion" aired, then it's fair to assume they still feel that way today. The whole "Voyager ruined the Borg" thing supports that hypothesis as well. Hell, a while back newtype_alpha and I got into a discussion where he also criticized the existence of the 8472 aliens.
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Well, I think it is kind of important to note that the Borg had been assimilating Federation and Romulan people and technology for at least a year before the Federation even knew the Borg existed. Now, just from capturing Intel from the Neutral Zone outposts wouldn't give the Borg a total understanding of Federation and Romulan Military capabilities. As I would think that the specs for a Romulan Warbird or Galaxy Class Starship would probably be pretty highly classified and not available to outposts along the Neutral Zone.
However, The Borg would still gain a lot of knowledge of culture and technology of the Romulans and Federation from the outposts they destroyed. That may have been why they chose the Federation/Romulan Neutral Zone as the place to conduct their initial recce of the Alpha Quadrant. Between the two most powerful forces in the Alpha Quadrant. With outposts that were probably fairly well armed in case they ever went to war with each other. And the Borg may have hoped to start a war between the Feds and Romies by attacking each side and leaving no trace of them ever being there, which is almost what happened in "The Neutral Zone". Ultimately Q showed the Borg to the Enterprise a year later at J-25 and they (specifically Worf and Data) were able to put two and two together.
I doubt that the Voyager makers were checking the internet message boards. But they must have been curious as to why their ratings kept dropping as the show ran, and were still aware of the fans opinions of the show. Which is how they knew how unpopular episodes like "Threshold" and "Endgame" were. And why they replaced Kes with Seven and brought in the Borg.
I do recall before the whole Borg and Species 8472 thing came to be, there were fans who didn't like the idea that there was another race more powerful than the Borg, and Voyager would have to team up with the Borg to beat them. Other races of equal or greater strength to the Borg, constantly at war with them, could have been a reason why the Borg could only ever spare one ship at a time to attack Earth. I don't know if that was the show runners plan, but fans did bitch about having other races more powerful than the Borg who had been seen as the ultimate bad guy in the Trek universe.
This whole concept of the borg being the end all be all kick ass bad guy of the galaxy gets blown way out of proportion. A bad guy that can't get defeated dosen't leave too much to write about. The borg are only as powerful as the worlds they assimilate. The Voth whose species are millions of years old(bear in mind they evolved from dinosaurs) Problably have far more advanced technology that could swat the borg of as flies. Species 8472 was SOOO different the borg couldn't defeat them without voyager. The borg don't learn, they assimilate, that being their biggest flaw. Whats the phrase theirs always someone stronger. Lets say that 28th century federation decides to go the way the borg did and go back in time to say the 22nd century and wipe out the borg. Would the borg stand a chance???
Getting back on the topic are the borg infacuated with humans. No prob not. They assimilate a few ships and get their latest technology as well as it's weaknesses. Earth is the true head of the federation. It's where starfleet headquarters is, and is prob where most info on the latest federation technologies would be which makes it the priority target of the federation as a whole.
Romulans, Klingons, and Cardassians are not as powerful as the federation on their own so they wouldn't be as big as a target. romulans and klingons have had dealings with he borg. There was an ex borg who was a romulan in VOY, I think the episode was unity. There was also a liberated klingon borg in command of the sphere in unimatrix zero.
The borg are more than likely intrigued with the federation cause they are so similar but completely opposite. Federation is always looking for new members to join, share technology and make the federation better. The borg are looking to make the collective better by new technology, instead of asking to join them, they take them.
Getting back on the topic are the borg infacuated with humans. No prob not. They assimilate a few ships and get their latest technology as well as it's weaknesses. Earth is the true head of the federation. It's where starfleet headquarters is, and is prob where most info on the latest federation technologies would be which makes it the priority target of the federation as a whole.
Romulans, Klingons, and Cardassians are not as powerful as the federation on their own so they wouldn't be as big as a target. romulans and klingons have had dealings with he borg. There was an ex borg who was a romulan in VOY, I think the episode was unity. There was also a liberated klingon borg in command of the sphere in unimatrix zero.
The borg are more than likely intrigued with the federation cause they are so similar but completely opposite. Federation is always looking for new members to join, share technology and make the federation better. The borg are looking to make the collective better by new technology, instead of asking to join them, they take them.
Why? because Picard didn't know about the Borg? You don't think that starfleet tells a mere captain about some top secret stuff, do you?
Again, why do you think this wasn't just quietly hushed up?
They knew enough to know the name, that they were cybernetic and to know what their ships looked like BEFORE they went out.
The Tombaugh was assimialted well before The Neutral Zone
