Why are Star Trek fans made fun of more than Star Wars fans in popular culture?

[evilchumlee]

If the stigma’s still there, it’s definitely lessened.

There's something of a roundabout effect here though... Star Trek is significantly less popular than it once was, so there are less overt Star Trek fans, which may lead to the perception of there being less of a stigma.

As both a Star Wars and Star Trek fan... I can anecdotally attest to the fact Star Trek definitely has way more of a stigma. I can have at least base-level conversations about Star Wars with people who aren't really fans at all... Star Wars has successfully penetrated the mainstream at least to an extent.

Bring up Star Trek and I get that like "oh, nerd" glare.

My fiance is kind of funny. 100% totally not into any of this stuff. She will tolerate Star Wars and will hang out when I watch things. Star Trek? Nope, I know better than to even try to bring it up. Although I did fall in love with her all over again... I was begrudgingly watching Discovery and she was hanging out in the room with me doing something else, and she had to stop me and be like "What the hell is this? It's even worse than the others ones." My heart.

(Tangent story, she was present the end of PIC S2. When Picard hugged Q she was like, "I don't know what's going on, but I can tell that was a big deal and seemed really nice." <3

 

[Skipper]

I would like to add that Star Wars fans can be just as nerdy as Star Trek fans. I remember the endless discussions of how Kilo Ren's sword guard could work.

 

[Anson Mount Seleya]

People in Gen Pop do seem more willing to engage in Star Wars discussions than in Star Trek. So while Trek fans might not be openly mocked like they used to, Wars fans still seem to be considered more socially acceptable. For example, the calendar at my workplace actually acknowledges May 4 as a holiday. Nothing Star Trek related gets that level of attention.

 

[JamesRye]

Back in the 90's, sure.

But Star Trek is so far from the mainstream nowadays, people just associate it with TOS and TNG. Back when Trek was a little goofy and had was easy to rip on.

'Normal' folk wont know who Burnham is, or Pike, or Sisko, or Janeway. If anything, Trek is cool because it's so niche.

 

[evilchumlee]

I would like to add that Star Wars fans can be just as nerdy as Star Trek fans. I remember the endless discussions of how Kilo Ren's sword guard could work.

Oh absolutely... and those are the Star Wars fans that will get made fun of by the mainstream.

Star Wars has achieved a certain level of cool... it's completely socially acceptable to be like "Yeah, Star Wars is cool, I totally like lightsabers!" But when you go in "nerd mode", well, that's when it happens.

It's not a bad thing to like things like that. I'm right there with you.

 

[FredH]

There's something of a roundabout effect here though... Star Trek is significantly less popular than it once was, so there are less overt Star Trek fans, which may lead to the perception of there being less of a stigma.

As both a Star Wars and Star Trek fan... I can anecdotally attest to the fact Star Trek definitely has way more of a stigma. I can have at least base-level conversations about Star Wars with people who aren't really fans at all... Star Wars has successfully penetrated the mainstream at least to an extent.

Bring up Star Trek and I get that like "oh, nerd" glare.

My fiance is kind of funny. 100% totally not into any of this stuff. She will tolerate Star Wars and will hang out when I watch things. Star Trek? Nope, I know better than to even try to bring it up. Although I did fall in love with her all over again... I was begrudgingly watching Discovery and she was hanging out in the room with me doing something else, and she had to stop me and be like "What the hell is this? It's even worse than the others ones." My heart.

(Tangent story, she was present the end of PIC S2. When Picard hugged Q she was like, "I don't know what's going on, but I can tell that was a big deal and seemed really nice." <3

Ow. That’s pretty definitive. Oh well…

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Because Star Wars is more popular.

Star Trek was a TV series that struggled to complete three seasons. Star Wars was a blockbuster movie that had lines around the block for months on end. That gave SW a "cool" cache it's never entirely lost while ST was that thing only socially awkward geeks watched. That's still the popular conception of both properties with the general public.

 

[Relayer1]

Because Star Wars is more popular.

Star Trek was a TV series that struggled to complete three seasons. Star Wars was a blockbuster movie that had lines around the block for months on end. That gave SW a "cool" cache it's never entirely lost while ST was that thing only socially awkward geeks watched. That's still the popular conception of both properties with the general public.

That about covers it.

Boys own action adventure vs nerdy preaching and utopian ideals.

Wide of the mark, maybe, but you tell mainstream culture that !

 

[evilchumlee]

In all fairness, Star Wars probably does have a more broad appeal since it does tend to work more on "Rule of Cool" than anything else, and Star Trek has historically played into its niche of fans...like, even the characters on Star Trek (TNG+ anyway) are kind of nerdy... Picard is super into Shakespeare and classical music, Riker is like what a High School Marching Band member might think of as cool (playing the trombone is... not cool), Geordie is more traditionally a mainstream guy but mirrors "us" by being hilariously awkward with women, Data says things like "Greetings" and "Indeed".

Star Wars has like, winey kid who becomes a badass fighter pilot, bad ass Princess who uses guns, bad ass Space Pirate guy, bad ass Space Wizard guy, bad ass Sasquatch looking dude, sassy robots...

Newer Star Trek has clearly tried to go a bit more into the Star Wars vein, to mixed results. The Kelvin films were probably the closest, eschewing the Mozart for the Beastie Boys and what not and being a bit more about "shoot stuff and make quips while doing it" than social commentary.

It goes deeper, but also this next part is something that could eventually die off. Star Trek had a unique position in the pop-culture zeitgeist in the exact time when the pop-culture zeitgeist became truly engrained into our society. The Star Trek fans of the 70's and 80's were probably among the most visible and largest of the emerging concept of the "fandom"... and it just so happens, those Star Trek fans happened to be by and large the stereotypical "nerd", and thus such became synonymous with Trek to the public at large. Despite being 40-50 years later, these things have a habit of getting entrenched in the fabric of popular culture to the point that people may not even know WHY Star Trek fans are nerdy, they just know they are.

That could... and probably IS... lessening with time, and "geek culture" becoming more and more mainstream is helping that out.

 

[fireproof78]

The Kelvin films were probably the closest, eschewing the Mozart for the Beastie Boys and what not and being a bit more about "shoot stuff and make quips while doing it" than social commentary.

And yet still did it, and led to more discussion with my wife (Not a SF fan at all) as well as with clients and other community members. I love ST 09 because I can use that with people a lot more in discussions on mental health.

 

[evilchumlee]

And yet still did it, and led to more discussion with my wife (Not a SF fan at all) as well as with clients and other community members. I love ST 09 because I can use that with people a lot more in discussions on mental health.

Perhaps it was too subtle, first i've heard of anything relating to mental health and ST09 aside from the very broad strokes with Spock. I like the Kelvin movies well enough, but see little in the way of social commentary in them, which is totally fine. Not everything needs to be that. They feel very much like schlocky action movies to me. But I like schlocky action movies, so that's ok.

 

[fireproof78]

Perhaps it was too subtle, first i've heard of anything relating to mental health and ST09 aside from the very broad strokes with Spock. I like the Kelvin movies well enough, but see little in the way of social commentary in them, which is totally fine. Not everything needs to be that. They feel very much like schlocky action movies to me. But I like schlocky action movies, so that's ok.

Kirk's whole arc is about leadership and fatherhood. Into Darkness has the whole "drone strike killing citizens" which was right in the headlines at the time of film release.

Man, I can't be the only one who sees this stuff can I?

 

[evilchumlee]

Kirk's whole arc is about leadership and fatherhood. Into Darkness has the whole "drone strike killing citizens" which was right in the headlines at the time of film release.

Man, I can't be the only one who sees this stuff can I?

I wouldn't exactly call any of that social commentary. It all seemed to me to be done in the most surface-level way possible.

Yeah, Kirk had a character arc... but I don't really see it any commentary on mental health. I would figured Spock's breakdown was more along the mental health line, and even that was just "homeworld blown up, Spock ANGRY!"

Yeah sure Into Darkness has "drone strike killing citizens" as a thing that came up and... that's about it. The extent of the social commentary was Scotty saying "I don't wanna!" (and even then he wasn't so much protesting the strike, he was protesting that he didn't know what was in the torpedoes.)

None of the things mentioned here are bad things. It's ok for things to just be action movies.

 

[fireproof78]

I wouldn't exactly call any of that social commentary. It all seemed to me to be done in the most surface-level way possible.

Different strokes, different folks. If it invites discussion and such then yes I would.

Yeah, Kirk had a character arc... but I don't really see it any commentary on mental health. I would figured Spock's breakdown was more along the mental health line, and even that was just "homeworld blown up, Spock ANGRY!"

If you understand how parenting impacts mental health then you'll see it.

Yeah sure Into Darkness has "drone strike killing citizens" as a thing that came up and... that's about it. The extent of the social commentary was Scotty saying "I don't wanna!" (and even then he wasn't so much protesting the strike, he was protesting that he didn't know what was in the torpedoes.)

Why does it need more?

I don't get this at all. You say "no social commentary." Well, it's there, talking about the need for father figures to build leaders, the inappropriateness of killing people via remote strike, especially citizens. Not sure what depth has to do with it. I'd put it above "Racism is bad, m'kay" of "Let that Be Your Last Battlefield."

It's ok that it has action; I expect action in my *checks notes on TOS* action/adventure show. I also think there is a little more than "just an action movie" as well.

 

[evilchumlee]

Different strokes, different folks. If it invites discussion and such then yes I would.

Well that was kind of my point. You have clearly had a different experience, but it wasn't until June 12th, 2024 that I have ever even heard a conversation linking mental health to Star Trek '09...

Why does it need more?

It doesn't. It doesn't need any at all.

I don't get this at all. You say "no social commentary." Well, it's there, talking about the need for father figures to build leaders

I wouldn't label that as social commentary. That's a fairly standard literary trope.

the inappropriateness of killing people via remote strike, especially citizens.

If it had actually explored that, I would agree more. Although oddly, our hero was totally down for it... Kirk was all about it.

Not sure what depth has to do with it. I'd put it above "Racism is bad, m'kay" of "Let that Be Your Last Battlefield."

You may have missed the point of "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield"... the message wasn't "racism is bad", it was "racism is nonsensical and arbitrary". It wasn't deep, but it was kind of the point... the situation was purposely absolutely ridiculous, to make the point of showing racists "this is what you sound like".

It's ok that it has action; I expect action in my *checks notes on TOS* action/adventure show. I also think there is a little more than "just an action movie" as well.

I'd prefer there to be more, but i'm also ok leaning more heavily on the action.

 

[fireproof78]

Well that was kind of my point. You have clearly had a different experience, but it wasn't until June 12th, 2024 that I have ever even heard a conversation linking mental health to Star Trek '09...

Which is hilarious to me and quite interesting because I had that conversation as a retail worker with a customer that same year. Fascinating.

I wouldn't label that as social commentary. That's a fairly standard literary trope.

It is and it isn't. Again, different experiences, but watching culture at the time and seeing the big push by the Health departments in the US for more father involvement and the two lined up for me.

If it had actually explored that, I would agree more. Although oddly, our hero was totally down for it... Kirk was all about it.

He was, until he wasn't. He even, dare I say it, changed, when it was made crystal clear to him that he was in the wrong, and was about to kill a Federation citizen with no trial. Again, was hearing it in the news at the time.

You may have missed the point of "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield"... the message wasn't "racism is bad", it was "racism is nonsensical and arbitrary". It wasn't deep, but it was kind of the point... the situation was purposely absolutely ridiculous, to make the point of showing racists "this is what you sound like".

And I see the same in the Kelvin films. It wasn't deep, but it is absolutely present.

I'd prefer there to be more, but i'm also ok leaning more heavily on the action.

And I see it having more and can make even more.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

I'm not convinced that the whole premise of this thread is even true. At least, I've never noticed anything of this nature, at least in most of the circles in which I travel (e.g., classical music, computer science, graphic arts). Then again, anti-intellectualism isn't exactly common in those circles, either.

Nor do I agree with the assertion that there are more people who are exclusively SW fans than exclusively ST fans. Especially given that ST has been around over a decade longer than SW.

I will say that ST presents a bigger target. By a few orders of magnitude. Up until SW started showing up on television, the only non-ongoing ST series that had fewer hours "in the can" by itself than all of SW combined was (maybe) TAS. And it is unlikely that SW is ever going to surpass ST in terms of hours of recorded drama, pages of licensed narrative fiction, pages of licensed non-narrative fiction, pages of "making-of" nonfiction, or pages of unlicensed fanfic. Kind of reminds me of something out of The Right Stuff: every time some other test pilot broke one of Yeager's records, he just went back up.

 

[evilchumlee]

I'm not convinced that the whole premise of this thread is even true. At least, I've never noticed anything of this nature, at least in most of the circles in which I travel (e.g., classical music, computer science, graphic arts). Then again, anti-intellectualism isn't exactly common in those circles, either.

Yeah... those circles would be among the ones that tend to generate Star Trek fans.

To contrast, i've always been something of a closet nerd. Star Trek and Star Wars are my two favorite things in this world. My social circles aren't super compatible. I grew up playing sports, my friends largely came from that, I work in the liquor industry... i'm usually around the types that would make fun of nerds.

From my personal experiences, Star Wars is much "safer" than Star Trek. My third love, Marvel... well that's a different story. That's actively kind of "cool" now, or at least was there for awhile.

Nor do I agree with the assertion that there are more people who are exclusively SW fans than exclusively ST fans. Especially given that ST has been around over a decade longer than SW.

I will say that ST presents a bigger target. By a few orders of magnitude. Up until SW started showing up on television, the only non-ongoing ST series that had fewer hours "in the can" by itself than all of SW combined was (maybe) TAS. And it is unlikely that SW is ever going to surpass ST in terms of hours of recorded drama, pages of licensed narrative fiction, pages of licensed non-narrative fiction, pages of "making-of" nonfiction, or pages of unlicensed fanfic. Kind of reminds me of something out of The Right Stuff: every time some other test pilot broke one of Yeager's records, he just went back up.

Despite Star Trek having a larger footprint, in my experience more people have more direct experience with Star Wars. Star Trek is ingrained into pop culture to an extent... everyone knows "Captain Kirk", "Enterprise", "Beam me up", etc. But I would wager a good many of those people have never so much as watched an episode of Star Trek or have seen a movie. If they HAVE seen something of Star Trek... they're either old and it was TOS, or it was one of the Kelvin movies.

A good majority of damn near anyone i've encountered has seen SOME of Star Wars.

 

[fireproof78]

Nor do I agree with the assertion that there are more people who are exclusively SW fans than exclusively ST fans. Especially given that ST has been around over a decade longer than SW.

I think any claims to exclusivity is just tribal yarping over nonsense. People are fans of both and the whole competition thing is something best left behind, especially if Trek is supposedly so intellectual.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

If they HAVE seen something of Star Trek... they're either old and it was TOS, or it was one of the Kelvin movies.

Or STIV:TVH. That movie was a watershed moment, the highest-worldwide-grossing TOS theatrical film ever, and the highest US-grossing prime timeline movie ever (and so far as I'm aware, the numbers I got from IMDB are not adjusted for inflation).