Why all the 'These are the Voyages...' hate?

[Hopeful Romantic]

I remember even before the series premiered, a poster on Trekweb half-jokingly predicted that the very last line of the last episode would be a TNG crew member saying "End program."

Indeed. You know, just in case it could all be forgotten as fan fiction

That's an insult to fanfiction.



Seriously, many PWPs have better plotting than TATV. And PWPs have no plotting. "I'll save the ship, Cap'n! Lemme just unhook my brain from all ability to reason and commit suicide!"

I think "forgotten" is the key word here. TATV is best left forgotten. Waste of an hour. "Extinction" had more consistent characterization. Hell, the salamanders in "Threshold" were more in character. I found "Demons"/"Terra Prime" to be much more satisfying.

I agree with our pookha--the most credible explanation for TATV is that Barclay was drunk and tinkered with the holodeck program to mess with Riker.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I agree with our pookha--the most credible explanation for TATV is that Barclay was drunk and tinkered with the holodeck program to mess with Riker.

I like that! Revenge of the nerds!

Take that alpha-turd, I turned you into a cook and made you kiss a Vulcan!

 

[Red Omega]

TATV was just the worst ending to a Star Trek series period. Even Brannon Braga is apologizing for it now. It was insulting to the crew and a lame story vehicle.

 

[eyeresist]

I think "forgotten" is the key word here. TATV is best left forgotten. Waste of an hour. "Extinction" had more consistent characterization. Hell, the salamanders in "Threshold" were more in character. I found "Demons"/"Terra Prime" to be much more satisfying.

I agree - the biggest problem with TATV is that it's just a bizarrely misguided waste of an opportunity. There are other ENT episodes I would rank as worse (Silent Enemy, Extinction, and Precious Cargo, IMO the most painful to watch) but that doesn't mean TATV is more worth watching.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

TATV is a painful piece of garbage coated blech. Also drek.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

I agree - the biggest problem with TATV is that it's just a bizarrely misguided waste of an opportunity. There are other ENT episodes I would rank as worse (Silent Enemy, Extinction, and Precious Cargo, IMO the most painful to watch) but that doesn't mean TATV is more worth watching.

Hmm... "Silent Enemy" had great lighting, esp when sighting the aliens. "Precious Cargo" was sort of an homage to the screwball comedies of the 30s, I enjoyed those. "Extinction" had the opening scene between Trip and T'Pol with the peaches, I adored that.

TATV... wait, gimme a sec... I've always said I found something to like about every episode... nnnnnnnn...

Okay here, I remember an avatar I made for one of the avatar contests.

 

[MacLeod]

I agree - the biggest problem with TATV is that it's just a bizarrely misguided waste of an opportunity. There are other ENT episodes I would rank as worse (Silent Enemy, Extinction, and Precious Cargo, IMO the most painful to watch) but that doesn't mean TATV is more worth watching.

Hmm... "Silent Enemy" had great lighting, esp when sighting the aliens. "Precious Cargo" was sort of an homage to the screwball comedies of the 30s, I enjoyed those. "Extinction" had the opening scene between Trip and T'Pol with the peaches, I adored that.

TATV... wait, gimme a sec... I've always said I found something to like about every episode... nnnnnnnn...

Okay here, I remember an avatar I made for one of the avatar contests.

Well there was that bit right at the very end of the episode, when the last credit card came up signalling the end of the episode.

 

[eyeresist]

HopefulRomantic, that was hilarious!


(Making fun of Travis never gets old - but on the other hand, I'm kind of new to online Trek discussion, so who knows? We might need some other angle. Maybe he was a secret agent under deep cover, so had to attract as little attention as possible....)

 

[Melakon]

They should have made Travis to be Malcolm's Section 31 handler. No one would have seen it coming.

 

[fireproof78]

I remember even before the series premiered, a poster on Trekweb half-jokingly predicted that the very last line of the last episode would be a TNG crew member saying "End program."

Indeed. You know, just in case it could all be forgotten as fan fiction

That's an insult to fanfiction.



Seriously, many PWPs have better plotting than TATV. And PWPs have no plotting. "I'll save the ship, Cap'n! Lemme just unhook my brain from all ability to reason and commit suicide!"

I think "forgotten" is the key word here. TATV is best left forgotten. Waste of an hour. "Extinction" had more consistent characterization. Hell, the salamanders in "Threshold" were more in character. I found "Demons"/"Terra Prime" to be much more satisfying.

I agree with our pookha--the most credible explanation for TATV is that Barclay was drunk and tinkered with the holodeck program to mess with Riker.

Sorry, but not all fan fiction is perfect

The only way it could have been worse is if MACO Riker saved Trip at the very end.

Also, Terra Prime really should be regarded as the series finale. It feels much more appropriate to me

 

[tomswift2002]

I always find that Enterprise's Season 4 was on such a great build up from the other seasons, it seemed to be something very different from Seasons 1-3, but then it decided to end on what I can't even describe as a weak episode. it was worst than weak---it was almost like the weakest episodes from early on were made out of Bristol board, while this episode was made out of tissue paper.

 

[KimMH]

They should have made Travis to be Malcolm's Section 31 handler. No one would have seen it coming.

That would have been one heckuva twist! Hmmmm, I think I like it.

 

[eyeresist]

They should have made Travis to be Malcolm's Section 31 handler. No one would have seen it coming.

That would have been one heckuva twist! Hmmmm, I think I like it.

Just imagining Malcolm's crestfallen look as Travis orders him about is delicious

 

[gblews]

I was thinkin about TaTV as just another regular season episode rather the series finale. If TPTB wanted to keep the Pegusus aspect as well as Riker and Troi, they might have done better using "Divergence" as the anchoring Ent episode.

Riker could then have been shown looking back at Reed keeping major secrets, hidden agendas, and split loyaties (just like Riker in Pegusus), and how he handled it. Since Riker eventually did what Reed did, that is confess to his captain what was really going on, the tie in to Pegusus would have made more sense.

Of course we would still have had to put up with the two Imzadi-wads waddling around, but a better episode might have softened that blow.

 

[tomswift2002]

I was just rewatching TATV last night and really it did a number of nosedives. One which I found really terrible was just after Trip "dies". You have Trip dying in sickbay, going into the cat-Ray machine (not to mention, but what was up with that stupid eye blink), followed by Trip having a conversation with Riker in the kitchen looking alright, as though he had healed up, without any mention of Trip dying, and then all of a sudden T'Pol is packing his things to send to his family. The Trip/Riker thing would've worked had it been a memory of Trip from someone else, but to just be a random conversation after we see Trip die?

Also Troi's foreshadowing early on in the episode, did we really need that, or would it have worked better had she not mentioned that Trip would not make it home before we saw the final part?

Plus, why did Shran's "friends" reappear? Sorry that was never made clear and Archer's line about how he thought Shran's had said the ship of his "friends" had nowhere near Enterprise's speed, reminded me of how Riker was able to figure out in "Future Imperfect" that he was in a Holodeck, and in "Clues" the crew of the E-D was able to figure out that Data was lying. True Shran's might not have truly known the ship's speed, but that scene seemed to have been put in just to get to Trip's death scene.

 

[Reanok]

Tatv is one big mess nothing about this lousy story makes any sense at all. Especially the way the Enterprise characters were treated as holograms instead of getting the finale they deserved to have was totally ridiculous. The Enterprise actors hated filming this episode.

 

[eyeresist]

One thing that really bugs me about TATV is the treatment of Shran. He was this great cool character, very strong, who nevertheless came to trust and occasionally rely on Archer. Unfortunately over the series he became more reliant on Archer to solve his problems, until we reach his nadir with this final episode, when he is basically a pathetic loser. If the whole of TATV really was a historical simulation, I think Shran represents some virulently anti-Andorian propaganda on the part of the Federation.

 

[wulfio]

I always find that Enterprise's Season 4 was on such a great build up from the other seasons, it seemed to be something very different from Seasons 1-3, but then it decided to end on what I can't even describe as a weak episode. it was worst than weak---it was almost like the weakest episodes from early on were made out of Bristol board, while this episode was made out of tissue paper.

I found S4 to be jarring. The first 3 seasons of the show had a continuity due to them having season arcs, and its own identity. They also focused on what the show was to me, which was experiencing everything for the first time.

The final season to me lacked structure, and was purely fan service. its only "structure" was using multi episode arcs to address popular places and stories in Trek history(Vulcan, Andor, Orion syndicate, Augments, etc.). Yes the first 3 seasons gave a wink to the audience from time to time, but they had their own identity. It's sort of fitting that the finale of Enterprise was equally jarring by making another attempt at fan service by starring Frakes and Sirtis in a popular TNG storyline.

To me, the finale was representative of the entire season, in doing a disservice to the series. That's how I feel about it though.

 

[MacLeod]

Had thet set the show in say the 2120's or 2130's then perhaps the expectation from the fans might have been different. But we already knew a few scant details from the period 2250's into the early 2161's. i.e The Earth-Romulan War and the Foundation of the Federation.

So it's not unrealestic of the fans to expect plots surrounding the events leading upto these events. You could say it was a disservice to the fans to basically forgot about these events. There are always two sides to the coin.

 

[eyeresist]

I agree with Wulfio on this. There are some good things in S4, but also some stuff that's pretty poor. It's true that elements from the pre-existing Trek universe were explored in more detail than the "special guest appearances" of S1 and 2, but there are still weaknesses we need to acknowledge: the sillyness of the augments, the weak middle episode of the Vulcan arc, the misjudged tone of the Orion slavegirl ep. Stand-alone ep Daedelus was a misfire. I also think the ep Home has been overrated. For me, the biggest disappointment was the Klingon story (perhaps because it was the S4 idea that grabbed me most, and which I expected most from) - the plotting is clunky and the Klingons act stupidly.

"Don't shoot, we can cure you."
"Open fire!"