Who was a better counselor, Troi or Guinan?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by shatastrophic, Aug 1, 2007.

  1. shatastrophic

    shatastrophic Commander Red Shirt

    May 8, 2007
    Mile High City
    After making a post in the thread concerning Picard and Guinan's relationship it got me to thinking who gave the best advice. I honestly don't know, but it did seem that Guinan set people back on the right path when they needed it. Thoughts anyone?
  2. Vic Sixx

    Vic Sixx Commodore Commodore

    Oct 5, 2001
    Planet Texas
    I gotta go along and say Guinan was better. Without her empathy, Troi was useless and spent most of her time on the bridge sensing stuff. Guinan was way better.
  3. WillsBabe

    WillsBabe Vice Admiral Admiral

    Dec 27, 2002
    I don't think Guinan was a counselor. She offered advice, often unsolicited. Counselors don't do that.
  4. CommanderRaytas

    CommanderRaytas Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Oct 1, 2006
    Intergalactic Planetary Planetary Intergalactic
    Yes, a counsellor is usually there to listen...like a regular psychologist. I would think. Means Troi had no business on the bridge, but that's another story.

    Anyway, as to advice, I think Guinan's was better because she could just opine and tell you what she thought about whatever situation. She was no-one's therapist.
  5. J47

    J47 Commander Red Shirt

    Jul 29, 2003
    From what we were shown, Guinan would seem to have been better at her job than Troi ever was, but I think that's more the writer's fault than what was 'actually' the case on the ship. People will spill their heart to a bartender because of anonymity, and for that same reason the bartender will dispense advice, but a trained counselor is usually the way to go.
  6. omnirad

    omnirad Commander Red Shirt

    Sep 17, 2004
    New Hampshire, USA
    Troi's counselling consisted of saying 'what do you think?'. bleh.
    Guinan made you think. hmmm.
  7. Vulcanian

    Vulcanian Commander Red Shirt

    Jul 19, 2007
    Shi Kahr, US
    Counselor Troi did mostly emotional stuff with people.

    Guinan, as WillsBabe said, was more of advice.

    But to be honest I haven't seen enough of Guinan to make a judgement.
  8. shatastrophic

    shatastrophic Commander Red Shirt

    May 8, 2007
    Mile High City
    very true
  9. Lookingglassman

    Lookingglassman Admiral Admiral

    Mar 22, 2006
    Guinan. I would actually listen to her because she wasnt attractive whereas with Troi I would be looking at her body when she is talking to me.
  10. Snaploud

    Snaploud Admiral Admiral

    Jul 5, 2001
    Massachusetts, USA
    Guinan was the only real counselor. Troi seemed more interested in being a human lie detector on the bridge (when she wasn't sensing "great pain" or "joy").
  11. votd

    votd Commander Red Shirt

    May 13, 2007
    Troi's character was just an 80s fad of prominent therapy; wheras Guinan was time tested trust in your bar tender and you'll be ok thinking. Gotta be Guinan, instead of appearing in therapy, you're enjoying a chat and getting advice with a friend.
  12. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

    Aug 31, 2000
    42 miles west of COVFEFE
    Guinan by far was the better counselor. She never used what Q so eloquently described as the "pedantic psychobabble" that Troi always retreated to when things got weird.
  13. SmoothieX

    SmoothieX Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jul 12, 2004
    Right on. She basically stands there and tells Picard: "I sense a great deal of apprehension. They could be deceiving us but I can't say."

    Troi asks how you feel. Guinan makes you hash out what's bothering you and helps you to find direction as to what to do next.
  14. blakbyrd

    blakbyrd Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Mar 3, 2004
    SC, USA, Sol III
    Guinan > Troi.
  15. Keith1701

    Keith1701 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Dec 26, 2002
    Warner Robins Georgia
    Very True......good point!!! :)
  16. Mordock

    Mordock Commander Red Shirt

    Mar 11, 2007
    The Western United States
    I don't know if one character was "better", since it's a question of the emphasis of the writing. I lean towards Peter David's interpretation: whenever Troi was in danger of getting a good scene, it went to Guinan.
  17. JiNX-01

    JiNX-01 Admiral Admiral

    Dec 29, 2002
    Guinan. AND she wasn't annoying.
  18. Ezri

    Ezri Captain Captain

    Aug 3, 2007
    United States
    Guinan was better.

    Did Troi as a counselor change the universe?
  19. picardo

    picardo Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Jul 9, 2013
    I was going to start the same thread, but saw this one which already existed, so here are my thoughts:

    - Troi and Guinan appear to have similar, perhaps duplicate job functions. And yet only Deanna Troi is the "official" ship counsellor, Guinan does not report to her. In other words, Guinan is only a bartender providing occasional advice, but in no way is she a member of Enterprise's "counselling department" so to speak.

    - Guinan appears to provide advice on a "general" level. She rarely dwells into the specific, her advice seems to be vague and open to interpretation. On the other hand, Ms. Troi provides very particular, specific advice down to the task level, she says how to implement the advice, she's very practical.

    - Guinan is sought for her "wisdom" while Deanna Troi is sought for her skills. Guinan reminds me of the Oracle in Matrix movies, who was telling everyone "what they wanted to hear" but seldom gave direct answers to questions. On the other hand, Guinan wouldn't be out of place in a Star Wars movie.
  20. Makarov

    Makarov Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jul 9, 2013
    Guinan seems to make people feel bad a lot of the time.

    - beats worf at that phaser game while telling him he doesn't laugh enough
    - pisses Riker off "Maybe you haven't heard. I tried to kill him yesterday!"
    - tells Geordie to get a life in Galaxy's Child
    - tells Yasha Yar she's supposed to be dead
    - tells Picard that Tasha Yar's romulan kid in Redemption part 2 is his fault

    Yeah I'd definitely be going to Troi over Guinan