Who takes the Kobayashi Maru test?

[Last Redshirt]

Was it only Command Division cadets, specifically going on a track to command a starship, or did every cadet have to take the test? It seemed that only members of the command division ever took the test, since I don't recall McCoy or Spock, whether it be in the movies, the series, or the expanded-universe books ever bring up that they had taken it.

 

[Push The Button]

Was it only Command Division cadets, specifically going on a track to command a starship, or did every cadet have to take the test? It seemed that only members of the command division ever took the test, since I don't recall McCoy or Spock, whether it be in the movies, the series, or the expanded-universe books ever bring up that they had taken it.

Scotty took the KM test in one of the novels, I believe.

nuSpock actually creates the KM test in the JJverse when he is an instructor at Starfleet Academy.

As for myself, my entire life has been one no-win scenario after another.

 

[Metryq]

Kobayashi Maru started with THE WRATH OF KHAN and was mentioned in later movies. Naturally, the exact same scenario could not be used over and over again, as word would get around to the other cadets. One could argue that TOS vaguely referenced such tests in "Bread and Circuses." Capt. Merrick explains that starships have very special crews, and Kirk said something about a test Merrick failed.

I vaguely recall a TNG episode where Wesley was subjected to some kind of "intrusion"-type test with a simulated explosion and emergency situation at the academy.

 

[T'Girl]

Spock said he never took it. This was after he had been give command of the Enterprise, while only a cadet training ship at the time, it was apparently available for non-training missions on a emergency basis.

So you can be a starship commander without taking the KM test.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Scotty took the KM test in one of the novels, I believe.

But he's a fully qualified command officer in addition to being an engineer.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I don't know why they don't just google the test and find out that its unwinnable. Unless the Feds have such control over the internet this information is never released which I think likely.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Cadets who are on the command track are probably arrogant enough that they think they can win it regardless of the reputation of the test.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

True but there would always be someone who couldn't help themselves and had to look. I would certainly look. I suspect information is tightly controlled.

 

[Last Redshirt]

True but there would always be someone who couldn't help themselves and had to look. I would certainly look. I suspect information is tightly controlled.

Indeed. I wouldn't be surprised if recipients of the test are told beforehand and afterward to not reveal anything about the test, and if they do, they could face whatever punishment.

 

[Push The Button]

It is a given that you won't be able to "beat" the test. What is important is what you do, how you react in the face of certain defeat and imminent destruction.

Using Saavik's test in TWOK as an example, she ordered her ship into the neutral zone and attempted to rescue the crew of the KM. When the Klingons attacked, she tried to fight them. When it was clear that the battle was lost, she ordered her crew to abandon ship.

She could have not attempted to rescue the KM, saving her own ship and crew, or she could have destroyed her own ship when the battle seemed lost, or surrendered, or she could have had a panic attack or ran screaming from the simulator. The candidate's reaction is the real purpose of the test, and what she and every other command candidate is evaluated on.

It is interesting that prime universe Kirk cheats the test and is given a commendation for original thinking, while his JJverse counterpart is reprimanded for the exact same action.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I've always viewed the Kobayashi Maru test as being more of a psych test than a test of actual command ability, although it can also serve as that. I think cadets go into it knowing that no one had ever beat it before and it was actually infamous for that.

I think whent Saavik took the test, she knew that it was unbeatable too and resented the very nature of that. Another cadet a couple of decades earlier had resented it for that very same reason...but he actually went and did something about it one day.

 

[t_smitts]

Assuming you don't "cheat" like Kirk did and you really have only two options, does the outcome of the test actually have any impact on your marks? Is a cadet who chose not to violate the treaty (and thereby abandoned the freighter crew to their fate) considered any better or worse than one does, and is promptly overwhelmed by the Klingons?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ It seems that if you go ahead with the rescue, the outcome of the actual test is always the same - you always lose. It's how you act while losing, that's the sticker.

Spoiler: other test takers

Sulu, for example, refused to even cross the neutral zone in the first place, let alone actually try to rescue the freighter, because he thought it was all a Klingon trap. And Mac Calhoun (from New Frontier) actually destroyed the freighter himself, reasoning that a rescue attempt (if the freighter is real) would be futile.

Neither of them suffered any black marks on their record for doing those things, so I guess it doesn't really matter what you do. It's all about how you act under pressure.

 

[Enterprise1701]

Say, what's the point of administering the test if you "can't pass it"? Is it just something that the admiralty uses to determine priorities for captaincies?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ No; like we said, the point is never to win - it's all about how the cadet handles a crisis. It's a test of character, nothing more than that.

 

[T'Girl]

It is interesting that prime universe Kirk cheats the test and is given a commendation for original thinking, while his JJverse counterpart is reprimanded for the exact same action.

Their total series of actions probably weren't the same. From what we saw of prime Kirk in various combat situations during TOS and the movies, it's very unlikely he would have fired upon the defenseless Klingon ship's in the simulator. It would have been against his character. Defeated enemies are allowed to surrender, or sometimes withdrawal.


Alternate Kirk destroyed the defenseless ships with photon torpedoes. The KM is a test of character, Alt Kirk displayed his clearly.

 

[Metryq]

and thereby abandoned the freighter crew to their fate

The way the Saavik scene played out in TWOK suggests that the distress call was all a trap. The moment the Federation ship crossed the border and Klingon ships appeared, Uhura said she lost contact with the Kobayashi Maru. (Yes, Uhura then said all frequencies were jammed—but the Klingons were right there, waiting.)

Of course, that might simply be one of those shifting variables of the test—cross the border and the KM ceases to exist; refuse to cross the border and the test plays out as though the KM is real.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I always thought that the test would be different for different classes, so as to guarantee that students couldn't know ahead of time what to expect. It may even be so that even the name of the test might change so that students wouldn't know ahead of time that the test they were about to take was the infamous no-win scenario.

That's why I assumed that nuSpock wasn't really the 'creator' of the test, so much as just the programmer of the specific incarnation that was currently in use.

 

[C.E. Evans]

It is interesting that prime universe Kirk cheats the test and is given a commendation for original thinking, while his JJverse counterpart is reprimanded for the exact same action.

nuKirk wasn't reprimanded, he was temporarily suspended while the Academy investigated what he did with the Kobayashi Maru test.

It's possible that in the prime universe, the same thing happened--except that it wasn't interrupted by a sudden emergency deployment to the Laurentian System. In the prime universe, the investigation was able to continue and it ultimately went in Kirk's favor, ending his suspension. Afterward, he was given the commendation for original thinking. In TWOK, a much older Kirk could be forgiven for leaving out the bit to Saavik that he had been temporarily suspended prior to being given the commendation, IMO.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It is interesting that prime universe Kirk cheats the test and is given a commendation for original thinking, while his JJverse counterpart is reprimanded for the exact same action.

Their total series of actions probably weren't the same. From what we saw of prime Kirk in various combat situations during TOS and the movies, it's very unlikely he would have fired upon the defenseless Klingon ship's in the simulator. It would have been against his character. Defeated enemies are allowed to surrender, or sometimes withdrawal.


Alternate Kirk destroyed the defenseless ships with photon torpedoes. The KM is a test of character, Alt Kirk displayed his clearly.

Atl Kirk's actions were his expression of his opinion of the test.