Who should have directed TMP if Robert Wise hadn't been available?

[Maurice]

To a degree, but TMP had much of the cast locked, the main sets under construction, etc., so that a name director like Wise had less control than he was accustomed to.

 

[CoveTom]

Also, Wise had to contend with Roddenberry as producer, which dampened some of his control as well. Not to mention that Roddenberry kept trying to insert himself in the writing, to the point where the studio heads had to essentially go behind his back to get the script workable.

Nick Meyer usually gets the credit for Wrath of Khan. I don't think the impact the removal of Roddenberry from the producer's chair, and the hiring of Harve Bennett, had on that film as well can be overstated.

 

[Christopher]

Not to mention that Roddenberry kept trying to insert himself in the writing, to the point where the studio heads had to essentially go behind his back to get the script workable.

While I kind of see what you mean, it's an odd way to phrase it. Roddenberry was a writer, after all, and the producer of the film. So surely it was his prerogative to participate in and supervise the writing process. Just because the results were problematical doesn't mean it wasn't part of his proper role to begin with.

 

[CoveTom]

While I kind of see what you mean, it's an odd way to phrase it. Roddenberry was a writer, after all, and the producer of the film. So surely it was his prerogative to participate in and supervise the writing process. Just because the results were problematical doesn't mean it wasn't part of his proper role to begin with.

Actually, no. Roddenberry was ordered by the studio executives to keep his hands off the typewriter. They wanted Harold Livingston writing it alone. But Livingston kept turning in drafts and Roddenberry would modify them before sending them on. Michael Eisner notably went through the roof. Robert Wise said in his 40 years in the business, he had never experienced anything like it.

 

[Christopher]

Actually, no. Roddenberry was ordered by the studio executives to keep his hands off the typewriter. They wanted Harold Livingston writing it alone. But Livingston kept turning in drafts and Roddenberry would modify them before sending them on. Michael Eisner notably went through the roof. Robert Wise said in his 40 years in the business, he had never experienced anything like it.

Okay, I see what you mean. Before then, of course, it would've been his prerogative as writer/producer, but you're saying he continued to defy instructions even after he was told not to do any more rewriting.

Still, when he was showrunning TOS, it was his job to do the final polish on every script, so it's understandable why he would've felt entitled to do the same for TMP. If Wise had never seen the like, maybe it was a clash of cultures between film, where the director is god, and TV, where the showrunner is god. (They didn't call them showrunners back then, I don't think, but the principle was the same.)

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Roddenberry would modify them before sending them on. Michael Eisner notably went through the roof.

IIRC, Eisner described Roddenberry's pages as "shit."

 

[CoveTom]

IIRC, Eisner described Roddenberry's pages as "shit."

He did indeed! lol.

It is fascinating to me that the people who worked with Roddenberry back on TOS said he was a brilliant rewriter and could often easily fix a script's problems. However, everyone who worked with him from TMP through TNG generally agrees he was not a good writer at all. It's curious. The only things I can think of are an intervening decade of his well-known substance abuse combined with his changing perceptions of what Trek was and should be. But those are just guesses.

 

[Christopher]

It is fascinating to me that the people who worked with Roddenberry back on TOS said he was a brilliant rewriter and could often easily fix a script's problems. However, everyone who worked with him from TMP through TNG generally agrees he was not a good writer at all. It's curious. The only things I can think of are an intervening decade of his well-known substance abuse combined with his changing perceptions of what Trek was and should be. But those are just guesses.

That's pretty much how I'd explain it. Though I think it's fair to say that he was always a better rewriter of other people's concepts than a writer of his own. The TOS episodes credited to him tend to be pretty bad, with the exception of "The Cage." And compare his mediocre Genesis II pilot that he wrote solo with the rather better second pilot Planet Earth which he co-scripted with frequent Stephen J. Cannell collaborator Juanita Bartlett, or the excellent The Questor Tapes which he cowrote with Gene Coon. Like George Lucas, he was better as a collaborator than a solo creator.

 

[Firebird]

He did indeed! lol.

It is fascinating to me that the people who worked with Roddenberry back on TOS said he was a brilliant rewriter and could often easily fix a script's problems. However, everyone who worked with him from TMP through TNG generally agrees he was not a good writer at all. It's curious. The only things I can think of are an intervening decade of his well-known substance abuse combined with his changing perceptions of what Trek was and should be. But those are just guesses.

I will say that the typewritten shooting script pages I've got in my collection for TMP with "GR" on them are generally worse than the earlier or later versions with "HL" (Harold Livingston) or "JP" (Jon Povill) on them. But, I give him credit for providing springboards for the later revisions to improve - the tables turned during production on the film where Livingston was rewriting Gene for the better.