Who is the best Star Trek composer?

[MacLeod]

Whilst we will never know if a different composser could have done a better job for each indivdual film I think on balance they got the music more or less right in each film. There are certain parts of the music each compossor compossed, there are also elements I don't like.

If I had to pick one it would have to be Goldsmith.

 

[Smellmet]

THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK is Williams's absolute pinnacle. But I can't think of a better opening theme than SUPERMAN's.

The chase in the asteroid belt is utterly hair raising, rousing stuff, just one of my many favourite bits in an amazing score. Superman is right up there too. You just don't get film scores like these any more. The first three Trek films are also in this league for me. I wouldn't call myself a film score aficionado, so I'm not aware of any re-usage by Horner, I just love them for what they are.

TFF, TUC, Generations, First Contact and Nemesis all had pretty solid scores too but I don't think they are in the top tier. For some reason I don't care for the Insurrection music, it's a very average Goldsmith by the numbers effort, much like the film it's attached to.

 

[Iamnotspock]

TFF, TUC, Generations, First Contact and Nemesis all had pretty solid scores too but I don't think they are in the top tier. For some reason I don't care for the Insurrection music, it's a very average Goldsmith by the numbers effort, much like the film it's attached to.

Oh, I love the opening theme to Insurrection; I think it's a beautiful piece and it really gets to me. For me, it's Nemesis that I find to be largely Goldsmith-by-numbers.

 

[Smellmet]

I dunno, there's just nothing memorable about it for me, my favourite ones I can hear in my head when I'm daydreaming about my best Trek scenes in my head. I can't really remember anything about the score in Insurrection. Maybe it's the films fault.

 

[gottacook]

I never actually criticized John Williams' Superman main title; I simply wrote that there were points of comparison with the TMP main title, and that the upward leap of a major seventh (which can certainly be construed as "heroic," especially in the Superman theme) was common to both.

Unless I missed it, no one here has yet mentioned Williams' really excellent Close Encounters score, from the same year as Star Wars. I mean the original 1977 version and not the one with alterations he did for the 1980 Rip-Off (I mean, Special) Edition. The latter version explicitly includes "When You Wish Upon a Star" at the very end, which sort of betrays the cleverness of Williams' poignant benevolent-aliens melody (which is actually a variation of the "When You Wish" bass line).

 

[eyeresist]

Looking at the poll results now, I kinda wish I'd thrown Dennis McCarthy a bone. He deserves more than a zero count. I guess it would have helped if the film he scored was more loved.

Horner is a serial cannibal.

I watched Willow for the first time a few weeks ago (surprisingly good), and was surprised at how Horner's swashbuckling theme was overtly taken from a Schumann symphony (I think it's from the first movement of the "Rhenish" symphony). Thing is, the way he uses it, first hinting at it, then letting the whole thing fly, then varying it according to the action, seems to me an example of homage rather than theft. I find it a more tasteful use of culture than all the Shakespeare quotes in TUC.

 

[DaddlerTheDalek]

My List:
1. Jerry Goldsmith
2. James Horner
3. Cliff Eidelman
4. Dennis McCarthy
5. Leonard Rosenman

 

[Maurice]

THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK is Williams's absolute pinnacle. But I can't think of a better opening theme than SUPERMAN's.

The chase in the asteroid belt is utterly hair raising, rousing stuff...

Kindly fix the quotes, as I didn't write what your post indicates.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

overdone blaster beam

No such thing! I <3 the blaster beam. I want one.

It was only included in 'The Enterprise' (indeed, it was only written) because Robert Wise didn't think that Goldsmith's original piece, a kind of love theme for Kirk and his ship, was "thematic" enough.

Even in that version the theme is given a nicely extended (on record, despite how you may feel about its scene's pacing in the film) almost sonata-like form. A stunning piece of work and a definite step up from the original version Goldsmith composed.

 

[martok2112]

Rosenman publicly blasted The original Robocop's score?!
Basil Poleduris scored circles around Rosenman. In fact, of all time, I'd probably say Poleduris is my all time favorite composer in film. I was saddened with his passing, as with Goldsmith's.

My fave scores by Poleduris: The Hunt For Red October, Starship Troopers, and Robocop. I was also glad to hear a segment of his Robocop theme in the recent remake. Actually, I jumped out of my seat and screamed "Hell yeah!".


From Empire Strikes Back, my fave theme is The Imperial March. Williams' best themes from all six films: Imperial March (ESB), Duel of the Fates (TPM), and Battle of the Heroes (RotS).

For Horner, if you listen to the opening theme from ALIENS, you will hear it was lifted from music heard in 2001: A Space Odyssey. I can't remember who scored that 1968 classic.

 

[Smellmet]

The chase in the asteroid belt is utterly hair raising, rousing stuff...

Kindly fix the quotes, as I didn't write what your post indicates.

Kindly fix the quotes, as I didn't write what your post indicates.

For one brief moment I was Smellmet and Maurice was I. It's like a three-way ''Turnabout Intruder,'' only not.

Fixed...

 

[martok2112]

Thanks for the 411, Foxhot.

 

[eyeresist]

For Horner, if you listen to the opening theme from ALIENS, you will hear it was lifted from music heard in 2001: A Space Odyssey. I can't remember who scored that 1968 classic.

The music in 2001 was Khachaturian's Gayane Adagio. Horner's sparse music for strings is obviously inspired by it, but the notes are different. Probably the Khachaturian was used as a temp track by the director, who then asked the composer for "something like that" - a common occurrence in movie making.

Aliens main title theme:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-jGrL7U09Y

2001 - Gayane Adagio by Khachaturian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRD43FAiHPY

 

[tharpdevenport]

Rosenman, much like Bernard Herrmann, was a very opinionated man. I also recall him saying his Trek film score was the best.

By the way, Intrada Records just released his score to "The Car" (the same day they also did the great score to "Duel"!).


North wasn't the only composer to get canned from 2001. British composer Frank Cordell did a score that was mostly classical adaptations; his widow tried for years to get the score released but died without that ever happening.


Herrmann was so opinionated, he would curse people out. There was a CD release of a long audio interview done by the composer, a few years ago. Something like 15 to 45 seconds were edited out. Apparently he said something so bad they couldn't include it.

 

[Iamnotspock]

Rosenman, much like Bernard Herrmann, was a very opinionated man. I also recall him saying his Trek film score was the best.

Where did he say that? I'd be interested to read the whole interview.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

OP: Horner. If Star Trek needed a new feel for the big screen, but retained the heart, larger than life and serious nature of TOS--serving the story at every turn, then Horner's TWOK/TSFS scores provided that x1000.

When I consider if the elements of Goldsmith's TMP score effectively served ST as a concept, the story, quality, melody and being memorable, Goldsmith's TMP score was such a big, meandering letdown. It did not say "Star Trek". There's no emotional connection to any main character (I do not mean Decker and Ilia), which means they were just tossed "out there" without that other "player" (a great character theme) helping to support their actions, feeling and story.

What is more disappointing was the drop in quality from some of his other 1970s work which were career hallmarks, such as Papillon, The Omen and Logan's Run. Each lifted the films, and in some cases, made scenes unforgettable. Memorable, defining character and scene motifs were overflowing from the aforementioned scores, but if you remove TMP's main title music, there's not much there. Even the use of Courage's TOS theme lost its meaning in that score.

I just listed to the entire TMP soundtrack on You Tube and it sucks just as much as I remembered. That awful theme song...Duuhhh Duh-Duh-Duuhu Duuuhu Duh-Duuuhh! Ugggh!

What an erudite critique.

We're done here.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Rosenman, much like Bernard Herrmann, was a very opinionated man. I also recall him saying his Trek film score was the best.

Where did he say that? I'd be interested to read the whole interview.

If I locate it, I'll let you know. It's been several years, I don't even remember where. But here's the one about "Robocop":
http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/articles/2008/13_Aug---The_Life_Of_Leonard_Rosenman_Part_Seven.asp

I thought the score [by Basil Poledouris] for the first film was so absolutely dreadful. There was no sense of the orchestra, no sense of drama. It was just a dopey, lousy score and it just didn't work.

I suspoect one of the other six parts has the relevent Trek quote.

 

[Tulin]

Rosenman, much like Bernard Herrmann, was a very opinionated man. I also recall him saying his Trek film score was the best.

Where did he say that? I'd be interested to read the whole interview.

I remember reading a post from a contributor here years ago who claimed to have had Rosenman as a college lecturer. He would claim the brilliance of his ST score all the time and that, in general, his scores didn't get the recognition they deserved.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I remember reading a post from a contributor here years ago who claimed to have had Rosenman as a college lecturer. He would claim the brilliance of his ST score all the time and that, in general, his scores didn't get the recognition they deserved.

It would be interesting to find a source that corroborates the story.

 

[mos6507]

Most composers do not get anywhere near the time required to do a good job. And the best scores tend to be the exceptions to the rule where the composer was a more integrated part of the whole production. It wouldn't surprise me that they have chips on their shoulders for coming in last minute in the process and expecting to crank it out before the release-date.

As far as the Horner vs. Goldsmith debate, they're both better than the other for different reasons. I think Horner does the Korngold swashbuckling motifs better than Goldsmith. A good point of contrast is the recycled drydock sequence in Khan vs. the original TMP launch music. Both are great, but Goldsmith is going for epic and sense of wonder where as Horner is adventure and heroism. So whichever you like depends on what you're in the mood for.

Also, while Goldsmith scored more Trek pound for pound, and his TMP theme went on to become the TNG theme, the latter scores tended to be laden with synth pads. Trek V in particular is overrated by film score afficionados. It has dated very poorly due to so much mid-80s synth tones. Goldsmith was at his best when he experimented with organic instrumentation, like the piano wires in Planet of the Apes or the Blaster Beam and other unusual instruments in TMP. Once he became infatuated with synths (as everyone did from the 80s onward) he let go of a lot of his signature organic sound.