Who is angry with nu trek?
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Hmmm. There have been situations where it feels like I'm angry at a piece of fiction, such as when I read 'The Turner Diaries'. But that anger was for reasons other than 'I don't like this creative choice.'
In reality I was just mad at the author, but in the heat of the moment, anger and disgust tends to override common sense. And even though the author is scum of the Earth, it is partially my own fault. I knew what it was when I picked it up, but read it all the way to the end out of morbid curiosity and a seeming need to punish myself.
...And I'm sorry for Godwin-ing the thread.
In reality I was just mad at the author, but in the heat of the moment, anger and disgust tends to override common sense. And even though the author is scum of the Earth, it is partially my own fault. I knew what it was when I picked it up, but read it all the way to the end out of morbid curiosity and a seeming need to punish myself.
...And I'm sorry for Godwin-ing the thread.
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Ok. Just don't ask about last Monday. (Gaahhhh...Monday)
Arpy said:
One thing I've always conceded about Nemesis (and, yeah, it took a bit of time to do so...LOL) is that it is indeed full of flaws. Largely because even though it was written by a big screen writer, it was also very fanboyish in its approach. Yes, John Logan said he'd like to see the Enterprise do things it never did before. That's all well and good. Sad thing is, the Enterprise had things it never had before. (How did it grow two decks between Insurrection and Nemesis?)
Yes, for all the big screen feel, there were a lot of problems. I think, if I were to nitpick one area, it'd be that pacing sometimes seemed to stutter step a little bit.
Example: First scene on the Enterprise bridge, when Deanna and Picard are egging Worf about "Betazoid Tradition". Then, all of a sudden, Worf is detecting an unusual energy reading from the Kolarun system, and he immediately identifies it as positronic. I would've written the scene a little differently so that it didn't just come right out from left field.
Arpy said:
If there is one thing I've always said is that, on a visual level, in recent years sci-fi shows were too big for the small screen. Even Star Trek The Next Generation was hailed for using "feature film" quality vfx... and they were effects that improved greatly as the seasons went on. On a visual level, it was the reason why I was disappointed with Generations, First Contact, and Insurrection. From the year that TNG went off the air, and then ended up on the big screen just didn't feel like the big leap that there was when TOS went off the air in '69 and then hit the big screen in '79. (Yes, we have George Lucas to thank for that wondrous transition.
) On a story level, I was disappointed because the writing just screamed television episode to me. I didn't feel a sense of growth from the NG characters like I did when Kirk and company made their big screen appearances in the first six TOS films. Everything just felt old hat. To me, anyway.
With the OS films (just like the series that sired them), there was the right balance of the personal "b" story, and then the main story. The segues seemed appropriate, ya' know.
With NG films, the transition from the personal to the main story seemed about as stark as black and white.
I think the segues between the personal parts of the story and the main scenario seemed to work better in the tv show than in the movies for NG. There was still that "stuffiness" to them somehow.
The characters really didn't change that much. One of the big points of contention was in Nemesis, with Picard driving the Argo. Now there was a chance to see a side of Picard we never really got to see, but for some folks it was a step too far. "Picard would never do that." But as I'm always fond of saying: "We don't know the characters that well. We don't know what they're capable of. Only the writers and the actors portraying them know for sure."
Big screen films only have so much time to tell an overall story about characters that are in an episodic saga. With a tv series, that character growth can be spread out over a season or two, where you get to see your heroes and villains every week. With a feature film, you only have a couple of hours or so to see them grow until the next feature film a few years later.
Ugh, I hope I'm making sense. This discussion is most enjoyable.
Whoever made that video sure sounds like someone who has spent some time around here. Was it you, Maurice?
And I for one am kinda glad JJ decided to ditch the Vulcan children's 'underpants and lots of belts' outfits. I'd like to think a better future does not involve Rob Liefeld designing child fashion.
And I for one am kinda glad JJ decided to ditch the Vulcan children's 'underpants and lots of belts' outfits. I'd like to think a better future does not involve Rob Liefeld designing child fashion.
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A
Amaris
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I love this video SO MUCH. It says everything I've been trying to say for years! The new movies have the same heart and spirit of the original series. I grew up on TOS, and the moment I saw ST09, I became that 4 year old kid again, sitting in front of the TV watching Kirk, Spock, and McCoy take me on great adventures once again.
Also, this video pointed out a few things I didn't catch, like the various quotes being sourced from the original material! Brilliant!
On a visual level, it was the reason why I was disappointed with Generations, First Contact, and Insurrection. From the year that TNG went off the air, and then ended up on the big screen just didn't feel like the big leap that there was when TOS went off the air in '69 and then hit the big screen in '79. (Yes, we have George Lucas to thank for that wondrous transition.
On a story level, I was disappointed because the writing just screamed television episode to me. I didn't feel a sense of growth from the NG characters like I did when Kirk and company made their big screen appearances in the first six TOS films. Everything just felt old hat.
I'd say an obvious reason for these differences is that TMP came 10 years after TOS, by which time effects had greatly improved and all the actors (and therefore the characters (except Chekov)) had matured. The TNG movies immediately followed the series, so there was no opportunity to miss the characters and setting, and not much room for the characters or setting to change.
I will say I think GEN is a much better looking movie than TUC. I think it's obvious they had more money, and wanted to do something visually outstanding. For the most part, they succeeded.
That's a great video, but it doesn't assuage concerns over the new team being derivative. ENT did a lot of unoriginal storylines too and knew how to use continuity porn.
People I've noted don't doubt nuTrek's knowledge of TOS. Speaking for myself, the nostalgia-fest is fun, but it isn't really new sci-fi, is it?
And the retro trappings at the neo pace are a blast, but they're backward-facing, and feel...like kids playing with their parents toys, rather than going outside and making new ones.
Finally, remember that TOS was progressive for its day, and though Trek over the years could get preachy, the message preached is a rare and noble one. I was disturbed by how casually Kirk and Spock dispatched Nero and his crew. It may say something about the time we live in today.
People I've noted don't doubt nuTrek's knowledge of TOS. Speaking for myself, the nostalgia-fest is fun, but it isn't really new sci-fi, is it?
And the retro trappings at the neo pace are a blast, but they're backward-facing, and feel...like kids playing with their parents toys, rather than going outside and making new ones.
Finally, remember that TOS was progressive for its day, and though Trek over the years could get preachy, the message preached is a rare and noble one. I was disturbed by how casually Kirk and Spock dispatched Nero and his crew. It may say something about the time we live in today.
On a visual level, it was the reason why I was disappointed with Generations, First Contact, and Insurrection. From the year that TNG went off the air, and then ended up on the big screen just didn't feel like the big leap that there was when TOS went off the air in '69 and then hit the big screen in '79. (Yes, we have George Lucas to thank for that wondrous transition.
On a story level, I was disappointed because the writing just screamed television episode to me. I didn't feel a sense of growth from the NG characters like I did when Kirk and company made their big screen appearances in the first six TOS films. Everything just felt old hat.
I'd say an obvious reason for these differences is that TMP came 10 years after TOS, by which time effects had greatly improved and all the actors (and therefore the characters (except Chekov)) had matured. The TNG movies immediately followed the series, so there was no opportunity to miss the characters and setting, and not much room for the characters or setting to change.
I will say I think GEN is a much better looking movie than TUC. I think it's obvious they had more money, and wanted to do something visually outstanding. For the most part, they succeeded.
Generations did have a few nice shots, although they still used a few stock shots from TUC.
On a visual level, one of the things I did love about Generations was that they used the visual style of the photon torpedoes from Star Trek TMP. I always thought that was the best torpedo effect, and Generations seemed to replicate it nicely.
I kinda always likened that part with Kirk's fight with Kruge in Star Trek III.
He gives Kruge a chance to be saved. Kruge denies it, intending to pull Kirk into the fiery hell below with him. Kirk then kicks him in the face repeatedly: "I....have had... enough of....YOU!"
To me, it was the same thing at the end of ST '09. Kirk offers Nero help. Spock disagrees. Nero declines the help rather vehemently. Kirk, realizing that the longer he keeps talking to Nero, the longer his crew is in danger of being pulled in by the black hole, and having no time to rescue any of Nero's crew, gives Nero a mercy killing...granted with a bit of "Ok, you asked for it." mixed with "I'm so glad you turned me down."
That's just my personal take, but I get where you're coming from Arpy.
Some folk think that Kirk just murdered Nero out of hand. Had they a bit more time, Kirk probably would not have acted so brashly, and tried as best as he could to rescue Nero and as many of his crew as possible, despite Spock's objection. But Kirk had to make a choice between Nero's crew biting the bullet, or everyone biting the bullet.
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I thought the whole lens flare thing was something that evolved in future humans. Right before anything happened a lens would flare. I concluded it was a kind of early warning system so other aliens would know that stuff was about to get real.
And since I am looking into the future I see us getting stuck in a causality loop of endless reboots.
And since I am looking into the future I see us getting stuck in a causality loop of endless reboots.
What's that? Can't see it properly. Ice cream commercial?
That would have been much more humorous and cutting criticism of the film's lens flares if I wasn't the one who accidentally distorted that image by resizing it in the easiest manner possible. So it actually does look a little different to the movies version 
Can't be arsed to change it though. That takes...effort...care...skill.
Can't be arsed to change it though. That takes...effort...care...skill.
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There were shots during Season 1 of TOS that looked like Shatner and other actors were doing mascara commercials. That, or staring through a slot in a wall at an atomic test detonation.
Kurtzman does have 4 more Writer's Guild Award and Hugo Award nominations than you do. SO I think I'll probably watch.
RAMA
Don't forget all the trippy green and purple lighting effects aboard the ship.
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