White Makes Right

[ichab]

Well, it doesn't really favor anyone. It just tries to ensure that qualified minorities get a chance. A foot in the door, that's all. They have to take it from there.
It's an awkward and uncomfortable rule to be sure, but decades of de facto discrimination in hiring by many was awkward and uncomfortable, too.

So at what point do we agree that the past is the past and move on?

When the past is the past.

For guys like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, the past will never be the past. Playing race is good for business.

I'm only going to say this once (in this post, people)....

(not shouthing, don't give me crap internet rules that you made up, just for emphasis...)

WE ARE STILL LIVING IN RECONSTRUCTION.

Please go read a history book on slavery and reconstruction before posting again. We're not even in the same sport today as the late 1800s.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

... snip ...

I see your response amounts to, "but bein' a white guy is so tuff!"

Give me a break. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes for once.

 

[ThankQ]

So at what point do we agree that the past is the past and move on?

When the past is the past.

For guys like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, the past will never be the past. Playing race is good for business.

I'm only going to say this once (in this post, people)....

(not shouthing, don't give me crap internet rules that you made up, just for emphasis...)

WE ARE STILL LIVING IN RECONSTRUCTION.

Please go read a history book on slavery and reconstruction before posting again. We're not even in the same sport today as the late 1800s.

So not true.

If you think blacks are on the same playing field today as whites you are either woefully ignorant of the reality or the data isn't forming together properly in your analysis.

 

[Alpha Romeo]

Takes a lot more than knowing the game to be a good coach. And I was talking about other jobs as well. How many white qualified firemen in Boston in the 70s and 80s were passed over due to quotas?

But that doesn't matter to you because of the perception that the playing field was leveled. Right?

So what you're saying is, that between 1921 and 1989 there was not a single non-white man (or woman I guess) in the USA to be found qualified to coach a NFL team, but at the same time you're crying about a couple white firemen who surely were way more qualified than any black fireman could ever be?

Who cares? I'm sure there were some qualified. The policy was wrong to discriminate then and it is wrong to discriminate now in any fashion.

For the sake of argument, which would you rather have the qualified firefighter or the unqualified one when your mom is coding or your house is burning down?

No I'm sure

 

[Misfit Toy]

Who cares? I'm sure there were some qualified. The policy was wrong to discriminate then and it is wrong to discriminate now in any fashion.

Doesn't that assume that the both applicants were in a position of equality in the first place?

 

[Alpha Romeo]

Who cares? I'm sure there were some qualified. The policy was wrong to discriminate then and it is wrong to discriminate now in any fashion.

Doesn't that assume that the both applicants were in a position of equality in the first place?

The original example does, sure. Either way if they aren't qualified they shouldn't get the job.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Who cares? I'm sure there were some qualified. The policy was wrong to discriminate then and it is wrong to discriminate now in any fashion.

Doesn't that assume that the both applicants were in a position of equality in the first place?

The original example does, sure. Either way if they aren't qualified they shouldn't get the job.

Where has anyone said people who aren't qualified should get the job anyway?

 

[RandyS]

When the past is the past.

For guys like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, the past will never be the past. Playing race is good for business.

I'm only going to say this once (in this post, people)....

(not shouthing, don't give me crap internet rules that you made up, just for emphasis...)

WE ARE STILL LIVING IN RECONSTRUCTION.

Please go read a history book on slavery and reconstruction before posting again. We're not even in the same sport today as the late 1800s.

So not true.

If you think blacks are on the same playing field today as whites you are either woefully ignorant of the reality or the data isn't forming together properly in your analysis.

Umm, who is living in the White House these days?

 

[Robert Maxwell]

For guys like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, the past will never be the past. Playing race is good for business.



Please go read a history book on slavery and reconstruction before posting again. We're not even in the same sport today as the late 1800s.

So not true.

If you think blacks are on the same playing field today as whites you are either woefully ignorant of the reality or the data isn't forming together properly in your analysis.

Umm, who is living in the White House these days?

Ah, yes, because we have a black President, that means there's no racism anywhere in the US now. How could I forget?

 

[RandyS]

So not true.

If you think blacks are on the same playing field today as whites you are either woefully ignorant of the reality or the data isn't forming together properly in your analysis.

Umm, who is living in the White House these days?

Ah, yes, because we have a black President, that means there's no racism anywhere in the US now. How could I forget?

Well, if racism was as serve as it used to be, he never would have lived to even get on the ticket, now would he?

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Umm, who is living in the White House these days?

Ah, yes, because we have a black President, that means there's no racism anywhere in the US now. How could I forget?

Well, if racism was as serve as it used to be, he never would have lived to even get on the ticket, now would he?

Just because racism has been diminished doesn't mean it's been eliminated or that its effects are not still felt every day.

 

[Misfit Toy]

For guys like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, the past will never be the past. Playing race is good for business.



Please go read a history book on slavery and reconstruction before posting again. We're not even in the same sport today as the late 1800s.

So not true.

If you think blacks are on the same playing field today as whites you are either woefully ignorant of the reality or the data isn't forming together properly in your analysis.

Umm, who is living in the White House these days?

Right. Because politicians emailing pictures of the White House with a watermelon patch added is something that would happen regardless of race.

 

[Aragorn]

A small number of black people in head coaching jobs isn't an actual problem. People not having a fair shot at those jobs because of racism is the problem, and a mandate or quota system or whatever doesn't fix the racism.

In a society free of racism, we wouldn't be sitting around counting how many white and black people hold 32 certain jobs. Mandating at least one black guy goes to an interview doesn't get us any closer to that.

But it does work!! There used to be no black head coaches in the NFL, now there are some. That's a fact.

So it's a "fact" that if there was no Rooney Rule, there would be ZERO black head coaches currently in the NFL?

For guys like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, the past will never be the past. Playing race is good for business.

I remember when the Packers fired Ray Rhodes after only one season as head coach, so naturally Jesse Jackson sought out the nearest camera to make it a public race issue and he questioned if white head coaches would be fired after only one season with a team. Never mind that it had already happened a few times before. But Jackson never let facts get in the way of his airtime.

 

[Franklin]

Tony Dungy may have put it best about the Rooney Rule. He believes that race aside, in spirit it should be a heads up for owners to make sure they don't target fixate on one "name" choice, and instead have an open mind and take the time to dive deeply into the pool of all possible head-coaching candidates who might be a fit for their team.
Do that, and you'll find qualified minority candidates to interview by default. And even if that candidate is interviewed and not hired, the person gains valuable interview experience and some notoriaty in the field for being seriously considered in the first place. That helps create a next time. It's worth it for both sides. After all, you don't know who the next Mike Tomlin will be.

 

[Roger Wilco]

So it's a "fact" that if there was no Rooney Rule, there would be ZERO black head coaches currently in the NFL?

I don't know about "zero", but although I'm no statistician it looks pretty convincing to me that the rule had some effect; if you can show me mathematically that it didn't I'll think about revising my opinion.

 

[ichab]

... snip ...

I see your response amounts to, "but bein' a white guy is so tuff!"

Give me a break. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes for once.

If that is all you gathered then I'm wasting my time here.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Who cares? I'm sure there were some qualified. The policy was wrong to discriminate then and it is wrong to discriminate now in any fashion.

Doesn't that assume that the both applicants were in a position of equality in the first place?

The original example does, sure. Either way if they aren't qualified they shouldn't get the job.

It's illegal for affirmative action programs to hire unqualified or unneeded employees under federal law according to the Bureau of National Affairs published affirmative action handbook for employers from 1979 on. Which is not to say it hasn't happened before, but companies and services can face serious repercussions for doing so.

So it's a "fact" that if there was no Rooney Rule, there would be ZERO black head coaches currently in the NFL?

Not zero, but at the time the Rooney Rule was implemented in 2003, minority coaches (black or otherwise) represented only 6% of the coaches in the NFL, way out of proportion with the number of minority players. Now, it's at 22%.

However, in the Rooney Rule-less NCAA the 6% minority head coaching figure still applies eight years after its implementation in the NFL, which demonstrates that there's no great rush to hire minority coaches without the rule in place at least giving them a shot at an interview. This is why the NCAA is considering implementing the rule as well.

For guys like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, the past will never be the past. Playing race is good for business.

I remember when the Packers fired Ray Rhodes after only one season as head coach, so naturally Jesse Jackson sought out the nearest camera to make it a public race issue and he questioned if white head coaches would be fired after only one season with a team. Never mind that it had already happened a few times before. But Jackson never let facts get in the way of his airtime.

What do Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton being attention seeking opportunists have to do with the merits or lack thereof of the Rooney Rule or affirmative action? They're just red herrings designed to be an easy distraction from the real issue.