Silencing them won't make them change their minds.
Can you provide specific examples?
'White genocide in space': Racist "fans" seething at racial diversity in Discovery...
- Thread starter Trajet
- Start date
- Status
How do you get to decide who can and can't remain/exist in society? If you wish to advocate a position great, but you seemingly want the power to go so far beyond that.
Not embracing your every thought and notion isn't a crime in of itself.
That's easy to say for someone who never has to fear for their lives on a daily basis.
It would keep it from spreading.
Link
That's not at all what I was saying.
Thank you for the link, and sadly, it would not stop it from spreading. It will isolate those who believe it, make them feel martyred and justified in their hatred, and that hatred will turn more violent than threats.
ETA: and then I read the comments in the links and individuals are calling from the leader, his followers, Trump and others to be shot. Reaffirms that violence will beget violence
Yet you think he deserves divinity and respect for advocating murder. Can you even comprehend how dehumanizing that feels? How it feels to be ganged up on my people who face none of this and told to love those who would kill you because of the way you were born? If you did I doubt you'd be arguing this point.
The oppressed tend to be unhappy about being oppressed, especially given the rise in violence against them and murders due to people like this leader and other Christian Conservatives.ETA: and then I read the comments in the links and individuals are calling from the leader, his followers, Trump and others to be shot. Reaffirms that violence will beget violence
But saying it gives all of us one less reason to fear. Would you rather be sentenced to life in prison becasue of something you didn't do? Because in a society that doesn't support the presumption of innocence, everyone is a criminal and nobody has to prove it.
Reaffirms that violence will beget violence
^This. You cannot build the society you want by becoming the evil you wish to eliminate. Failure to understand this is how we have fascists and fascist anti-fascists in the year 2017.
History shows us that the oppressed often rise up, take control, and become the new oppressors. See comment above.
You would be wrong about me.
No, I can't comprehend how it feels, but I'm trying. But, I don't think that violence against anyone will silence them in to agreement or change hearts or minds.
I believe all humans have dignity and deserve respect. Otherwise, I could justify killing anyone.
So, violence is the answer? This is a legitimate question, with due respect.
Who would be the arbiter of who gets locked away though. Labeling someone as an oppressor / bigot could result in innocent people being condemned / imprisoned.
If only that fact would make people realize how uncivilized the death penalty is.
I'm not advocating violence. I just don't think that everyone deserves respect and I certainly don't see any connection between lack of respect and violence.
If a person is unworthy of human dignity or respect, then it is easy to argue for violence against them. It would be easier to accept if the immediate reaction wasn't "Well someone should shoot him."
It may not be a quick connection, but it isn't so far removed from disrespect to violence.
It may not be a quick connection, but it isn't so far removed from disrespect to violence.
The criminal justice system, it's not perfect and I'm not against a major overhaul to prevent abuse.
Most countries actually have laws against hate speech. They haven't devolved into nationwide witch hunts.
Maybe to you.
That is the only POV I can speak to. I have been researching psychology for many years, but I can still only speak from my own experience.
I have not seen anybody advocate violence against haters, not today in this thread anyway. I've seen people express anger and speak figuratively, but that's it. It's been figurative, because, when people talk about building bridges, no one assumes that we're talking about a literal bridge; figuratively burning down something that's only metaphorical to begin with isn't literal violence.
So can I, but you can have empathy for those you aren't as privileged as you. Just think for a moment how it must look to someone who has actually dealt with threats on their life and telling them that being against them is just as bad as what they are doing. That them wanting to stay alive isn't worth telling a bigot that they can't say shit like that and still be considered a member of civilized society. You're defending bigots and attacking their victims for being upset about it.
I was not referring to anyone in this thread. I was commenting on comments in a link that was given to me as an example of a Christian advocating violence against transgender individuals in the bathroom. My distress and sadness was at the fact that the top comments were ones that immediately advocated violence in response.
One facet of violence that I have read about is the dehumanizing of the opponent. When it is said that individuals with a certain point of view must be locked away it begs the question of their human rights. If those rights are considered less than others, then violence becomes much easier, because they are in the process of being dehumanized.
By the way, this applies on all sides, and is commonly used in video games, films, as well as the political and philosophical arena.
I may disagree with lots and lots of people, but disrespecting, saying they have no human dignity, them and threatening violence will not silence them or change their minds. Violence is easy-building bridges is not.
I am concerned about violence and advocating for civilized discussion. That's all.
I'm not attacking anyone, and I apologize if it sounds like I am.
Disagreeing with someone, and that speech being alleged to have been hate speech could land one in a years long court battle. I guess that would justify the means though -- no one disagrees for fear of being hauled into court on a hate speech charge. So what if you get exonerated, you're now penniless.
So what? You can wind up in a long court battle over cutting down a tree that's partially on your neighbor's property.
It's just that that's not happening here. If anything, we're struggling with how to deal with hate speech ourselves, because it's so destructive to our civilization.
And it isn't simply academic. It influences not only public policy, but also it can inspire some people to commit crimes and physically harm others. Perhaps creating an alternate narrative is one way to go; hopefully DSC can provide a piece of that narrative that is inclusive and promotes human rights.
But as a straight white American male myself, I'm not at risk from the bigots. I'm sure it's not good, but I don't really know what it's like to be at risk myself, and I can't say what I would do in someone's shoes who is at definite risk. I would be pretending. That said, I find it completely understandable why people who get hurt by these things aren't interested in building bridges with the haters. I can see at least that I might not want to, were I in their position.
Last edited:
- Status