Which version of TOS is canon??

[F. King Daniel]

Yes. It is their interpretation of what is going on. Whether anyone likes it or not, Discovery was made 54 years after the original Star Trek. From my point of view, there is simply no way they can occur concurrently in the same universe. We are simply too different in what we believe, our general experiences too different from the creators of five decades ago.

From CBS point of view, calling it “Prime” is a calculated business decision, designed to pacify fans who can’t or won’t let go of the past

I used to think like that and still think none of it really fits, but when you watch an episode of Discovery and they're literally watching clips of TNG episodes in it, or using TOS clips in "previously on..." segments it's hard to deny their intent is 100% that they're the same fictional world.

When discussing 23rd century stuff you have to specify whether you're talking about the TOS, AOS or DSC versions of it because they are all different people IRL putting different spins on it. But they're all intended as the same fictional world.

 

[jackoverfull]

Maybe in an alternative timeline??

but not in the canon timeline

 

[Christopher]

The Oz Canon is filled with contradictions. So is the Holmes Canon. So is the Humanx Commonwealth Canon. So is the Biblical Canon.

Yes. A canon is simply a complete set of works that share a common identity, whether it's a single fictional series like the Holmes canon or something broader and more loosely defined -- the Shakespeare canon, the Rembrandt canon, the film noir canon, the canon of English literary criticism. It's any collection of works regarded as a comprehensive or definitive catalog of a given category, no matter how much or how little narrative continuity exists among those works.

I used to think like that and still think none of it really fits, but when you watch an episode of Discovery and they're literally watching clips of TNG episodes in it, or using TOS clips in "previously on..." segments it's hard to deny their intent is 100% that they're the same fictional world.

When discussing 23rd century stuff you have to specify whether you're talking about the TOS, AOS or DSC versions of it because they are all different people IRL putting different spins on it. But they're all intended as the same fictional world.

Exactly. It's like when The Six Million Dollar Man did "The Return of the Bionic Woman." It was Martin E. Brooks's debut as Rudy Wells, but when Brooks's Rudy was explaining how he cryogenically preserved Jaime Sommers after her apparent death, they showed flashbacks of Alan Oppenheimer's Rudy from the original episode. They trusted audiences to understand that it was stil the same character even though they were cutting between two different actors. What matters is how something is treated in the story, not how it looks to the eye. If the characters treat it as the same, then it's the same, even if it looks completely different to the viewer.

 

[BillJ]

but not in the canon timeline

I long ago quit caring about canon and continuity. I care about the story and likable characters. I simply don't care if Kirk is a woman or Scott is of African decent.

 

[jackoverfull]

I long ago quit caring about canon and continuity. I care about the story and likable characters. I simply don't care if Kirk is a woman or Scott is of African decent.

it was a joke...

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

I always preferred Oppenheimer's Rudy Wells.

 

[Christopher]

I always preferred Oppenheimer's Rudy Wells.

Me too.

And of course, Martin Balsam played Rudy in the pilot movie, and I think some stock footage from that was used in one of Oppenheimer's Rudy episodes. Even though the pilot movie has several contradictions with the later series -- Steve Austin was a civilian astronaut given bionics by Oliver Spencer (Darren McGavin) instead of Oscar Goldman, and he was basically a slave of the government, forced to work for them whether he wanted to or not. There was also a series episode ("The Seven Million Dollar Man") that revisited Steve's backstory from the movie but substituted a different love interest for Barbara Anderson's character from the movie. And the titular $7M (Monte Markham) man was named Barney Miller, but then the sitcom of that title premiered, so he was Barney Hiller when he came back.

And of course, the producer who oversaw most of these continuity changes went on to produce the second through fifth Star Trek movies...

 

[Noname Given]

They also exist on blu-ray in high definition.
Both the original and "Remastered" versions are included on the blu-ray discs. And I watch the originals, myself.

Kor

I usually watch the originals for a lot of the Klingon based episodes simply because I find the digital model of the Klingon ships terrible.

I also wish the people doing the remastered digital effects would have paid greater attention to the scripts, because I do feel that the first decloaking of the Romulan bird of prey in balance of terror when the commander of the outpost says :

"Do you see it becoming visible in the center of my screen?"

The original de-cloaking effect is slow and deliberate so that it fits with the line as stated.

The new digital effect pretty much has the Romulan bird of prey more just "pops in" visually quite quickly <--- And as a result the line on screen just doesn't fit with the action on the screen.

 

[Ssosmcin]

I also wish the people doing the remastered digital effects would have paid greater attention to the scripts, because I do feel that the first decloaking of the Romulan bird of prey in balance of terror when the commander of the outpost says :

"Do you see it becoming visible in the center of my screen?"

The original de-cloaking effect is slow and deliberate so that it fits with the line as stated.

The new digital effect pretty much has the Romulan bird of prey more just "pop in" visually quite quickly <--- And as a result the line on screen just doesn't fit with the action on the screen.

The Doomsday Machine is filled with a lot of those instances where they didn't pay attention to the meaning of the dialog when they made the new effects.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Me too.

And of course, Martin Balsam played Rudy in the pilot movie, and I think some stock footage from that was used in one of Oppenheimer's Rudy episodes.

When Martin E. Brooks debuted as Rudy in "The Return of the Bionic Woman,", he had much thinner hair than the "younger and sexier" Rudy he played later. Oppenheimer did an appearance in "The Bionic Criminal" after Brooks showed up but before Brooks' thicker hair was in place.

I liked all of the different versions of Rudy, but once Boorks became a regular, Rudy Wells evolved from a specialized expert in bionics and suddenly an expert in EVERYTHING. And as good as Balsom and Oppenheimer were, I can't see them doing the same physical work Brooks did in "The Most Dangerous Enemy" episode where Rudy had super human strength.

 

[jackoverfull]

The Doomsday Machine is filled with a lot of those instances where they didn't pay attention to the meaning of the dialog when they made the new effects.

i hate that...I’ve seen the episode with the new effects for the first time a few weeks ago and couldn’t believe they were so inferior to the original.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

I always preferred Oppenheimer's Rudy Wells.

Me too.

And of course, Martin Balsam played Rudy in the pilot movie, and I think some stock footage from that was used in one of Oppenheimer's Rudy episodes.

I preferred Oppenheimer over both Balsam and Brooks. His Rudy seemed to have a sense of humor. And more humility.

 

[FormerLurker]

Martin Balsam played Rudy in the pilot movie

Did he have a beard in the role? For some reason I remember him with a beard.

I think Wells in the book Cyborg was described as having a beard, and I may be conflating the two.

 

[Christopher]

Did he have a beard in the role? For some reason I remember him with a beard.

No beard. All three Rudies had mustaches (though their hairlines differed considerably).

https://bionic.fandom.com/wiki/Rudy_Wells

 

[FormerLurker]

I must be conflating the book description, then. I'll have to rewatch the pilot.

 

[Christopher]

I'll have to rewatch the pilot.

It's not that great.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

It's not that great.

Nobody was particularly likable.

 

[Ssosmcin]

The syndicated two part version is godawful.
The original “Movie of the Week” cut is much better. I don’t mind it, Steve Austin handles the situation realistically and none of the series tropes are in evidence. It’s not even slightly “fun.” But it’s a decent SF drama adventure.

 

[Christopher]

The syndicated two part version is godawful.
The original “Movie of the Week” cut is much better. I don’t mind it, Steve Austin handles the situation realistically and none of the series tropes are in evidence. It’s not even slightly “fun.” But it’s a decent SF drama adventure.

To be fair, I found the crash sequence compelling because of its realism, though the interminably dull cutaways to Darren McGavin in an elevator dragged it down. Lee Majors is actually surprisingly good at conveying the angst and intensity beneath Austin's astronaut-cool exterior, and the dark premise that Steve is basically chattel to the government because they own his body parts is kind of interesting (similar themes were explored in the 2000 The Invisible Man and Jake 2.0). But I felt it had a weak, disappointing ending. The rescue mission turns out to have been a test with no real danger, and then the movie just ends abruptly without resolving anything. It feels like part 1 of a miniseries rather than a full story. Maybe they meant to follow through, but then they turned the next two movies over to Glen Larson and he turned them into a goofier James Bond knockoff, before Harve Bennett finally took over for the series and struck a tone somewhere between the two.

 

[MAGolding]

...When discussing 23rd century stuff you have to specify whether you're talking about the TOS, AOS or DSC versions of it because they are all different people IRL putting different spins on it. But they're all intended as the same fictional world.

Wha does AOS stand for?