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Which version of TOS is canon??

Though it does make for continuity errors for all those times people were stuck on the bridge, like in Naked Time when the turbo lift was jammed.

Why would there be a continuity error? The Enterprise in Discovery is from 2257-8, nearly a decade before TOS. We know the ship was completely refitted between TOS and TMP, so the simplest explanation is obviously that it was also refitted before Kirk's 5-year mission.
 
I know I'm feeding into the canon stuff but isn't everything canon now that Star Trek has no overall creative controller. I mean the owners would want everything they can make money off included in canon.
Different timelines can be used to explain everything. Except what happened in Yesteryear. ;)
 
Why would there be a continuity error? The Enterprise in Discovery is from 2257-8, nearly a decade before TOS. We know the ship was completely refitted between TOS and TMP, so the simplest explanation is obviously that it was also refitted before Kirk's 5-year mission.

Also, apparently, between The Cage and Discovery season 2.
 
Also, apparently, between The Cage and Discovery season 2.
Yes, they built the ship as seen in the second season of Short Treks. Refitted it for "The Cage". Then they de-fitted it for Discovery season 2 and Strange New Worlds to how it was (reverting to the older costumes as well) then re-refitted it for TOS. Then re-re-refitted it for the classic movies.
 
I know I'm feeding into the canon stuff but isn't everything canon now that Star Trek has no overall creative controller. I mean the owners would want everything they can make money off included in canon.

That's not how it works. "Canon" is a descriptive term for a complete and definitive body of work, such as a single series/franchise (the Star Trek canon, the Sherlock Holmes canon) or a given creator's entire recognized output (the Shakespeare canon, the Rembrandt canon). So by definition, Star Trek canon has always been "everything." That's simply what the word means -- everything from the original source, the complete catalog of creations that share a common origin and identity. It's not a label assigned by the creators; creators don't have to care about canon, because what they create is automatically the canon by definition. It's just a description of a work's authorship -- or rather a label for the entire collective body of works that share authorship/identity.

Not to mention that the owners make money off of any legally released Trek fiction whether it's part of the canon or not, since tie-in publishers still need to pay them for the license to create non-canonical works.

Also, where did you get the idea that "Star Trek has no overall creative controller"? Of course it does. Currently it's Alex Kurtzman. The creative controller is whoever's in charge of the current production or productions, i.e. the showrunner or the producer of a movie series.
 
That's not how it works. "Canon" is a descriptive term for a complete and definitive body of work, such as a single series/franchise (the Star Trek canon, the Sherlock Holmes canon) or a given creator's entire recognized output (the Shakespeare canon, the Rembrandt canon). So by definition, Star Trek canon has always been "everything." That's simply what the word means -- everything from the original source, the complete catalog of creations that share a common origin and identity. It's not a label assigned by the creators; creators don't have to care about canon, because what they create is automatically the canon by definition. It's just a description of a work's authorship -- or rather a label for the entire collective body of works that share authorship/identity.

Not to mention that the owners make money off of any legally released Trek fiction whether it's part of the canon or not, since tie-in publishers still need to pay them for the license to create non-canonical works.

Also, where did you get the idea that "Star Trek has no overall creative controller"? Of course it does. Currently it's Alex Kurtzman. The creative controller is whoever's in charge of the current production or productions, i.e. the showrunner or the producer of a movie series.
Well you're an author so I suppose I can't tell you what the official definition of canon is.
HOWEVER...
GR did create/had authorship of TAS and then apparently decanonised it. Sort of said he might decanonise some movies, part of TOS. And lucky for TOS fans the TMP novelisation which also attempted to decanonise some more of TOS was itself not canon. So GR started this canon thing in Star Trek.
You say everything is Star Trek canon where the novels are not even the movie tie-ins and Blish and Fosters work even though they relate to on-screen.
Hey if it was up to me I'd include a large percentage of the novels/comics in canon. Not all the crazy early ones though.

Does Kurtzman really have the power to decanonise anything like GR thought he did. I mean if he took offence to one of Shatner's daily tweets does he have the street-cred or management power to decanonise TOS or TMP or TAS again?
 
I know I'm feeding into the canon stuff but isn't everything canon now that Star Trek has no overall creative controller. I mean the owners would want everything they can make money off included in canon.
Different timelines can be used to explain everything. Except what happened in Yesteryear. ;)

After rewatching "The Deadly Years" and "The Enterprise Incident", I've two conclusions on canon (one specific to the f/x and one not):

f/x-specific: TOS-R really adds to episodes without being garish (see Star Wars and Red Dwarf for more, noting the latter series may have been garish as an attempt to create a joke at Star Wars' expense.) The two aforementioned stories' use of adding Romulan ships adds to "the feel of the scene" in ways the TOS original did not or could not and to this day remain impressive.

general: "The Enterprise Incident" has Spock stating to the Romulan Commander that it is unbecoming of a Romulan to "be clever'. TNG disproves that time and again and this story is also seemingly the basis for TWOK and TUC doing a running theme of "you lied"/"you exaggerated" and other coy in-jokes to justify every time Spock says something that isn't rote verbatim regardless of reason Which is sorta nice in a way...

I remember the good old days when people said "sequels are lazy" (think: late-1970s, early-1980s). On one hand that can be true. On the other hand and be glad I don't have three, is that sequels can engage in universe-expanding - which can later lead to the side effect of the franchise ending up with "small universe syndrome" or "the big crunch" where they hyperfocus on one or two things instead of continuing to branch out. Even then there's still risk of franchise fatigue (see "Voyager"), so in the end if any continuation or redo has a vibe one finds enjoyable as, in the end, it'll all change again anyway since they're not going to be buried unlike those classic franchises such as "Captain Nice" and "My Mother the Car"...
 
GR did create/had authorship of TAS and then apparently decanonised it.

No, he didn't. At the time of the 1989 memo, Roddenberry was in very poor physical and mental health and had been eased back to a strictly ceremonial position within the franchise. His memo had zero influence on the actual shows, which did occasionally reference TAS (the events of "Yesteryear," the Klothos, Edosian orchids etc.) during the time when it was supposedly "banned." The no-TAS policy applied only to the tie-ins, because Roddenberry's aide Richard Arnold was in charge of approving the tie-ins and he was able to enforce the restriction on them. But that had nothing to do with canon, because canon is by definition the stuff that isn't tie-ins.

The only real effect of that stupid, toothless memo was to fool fans into believing canon was something completely different from what it actually is. It was an old, insecure man's attempt at a petty power trip to compensate for his loss of any actual power. He wasn't in control of the actual canon anymore, so he tried to pretend he had the power to define canon retroactively, and the fans fell for it. But it never had power over anything except tie-ins and public opinion, and it stopped having any impact on the tie-ins more than 20 years ago. This myth is long, long overdue for extinction.


So GR started this canon thing in Star Trek.

He called attention to it, yes, and warped its definition in fans' minds, but the concept of fictional canons existed long before Star Trek. As far as I know, the use of the term in its sense of an official core continuity of a fictional series as distinct from inauthentic derivative works began among Sherlock Holmes fans.


Hey if it was up to me I'd include a large percentage of the novels/comics in canon.

The whole point of the word is that it's not up to you. Not unless you're the author or owner of the series in question. That's what canon really means -- it's not about "what happened," but about authorship. A fictional canon is the entire original work of a single author or the creative team of a shared universe. Tie-ins are often canonical when they come directly from that author or team, but almost never when they're created by different people. That's why the Dell Babylon 5 novels published during the series were mostly not canonical while the post-series Del Rey ones were, and why the Buffy the Vampire Slayer comics published during the series were not canonical while the post-series ones were. The difference is that the post-series ones came from the creators themselves. Outside authors can only imitate or approximate the core work; only its actual creators can add something integral to it.

Of course, as an audience member, you're perfectly free to count non-canonical works in your personal view of the continuity. But that's got nothing to do with canon, because canon is not a statement of "reality" or "rightness" (an absurd standard to apply to make-believe stories), just authorship.



Does Kurtzman really have the power to decanonise anything like GR thought he did.

Again: Canon is not an officially assigned label or seal of approval. Canon is just a descriptive nickname for the entire body of works that make up a series. Whatever the creators add to a series is part of its canon by definition. So yes, whoever is creating a series has absolute power to rewrite it however they want, because it's all just make-believe and we're only pretending any of it happens anyway. The creators of Dallas erased an entire season from its continuity -- although that season is still part of its canon, because canon does not mean continuity, it means the complete body of creative works in a series or category, whether they're mutually consistent or not. I doubt you could get a complete experience of Dallas without the "dream" season -- especially since the spinoff Knots Landing still referenced its events.


general: "The Enterprise Incident" has Spock stating to the Romulan Commander that it is unbecoming of a Romulan to "be clever'. TNG disproves that time and again...

Does it? The two series are a century apart. A culture can change a great deal in a century.
 
Though it does make for continuity errors for all those times people were stuck on the bridge, like in Naked Time when the turbo lift was jammed.
In what way? Riley had full control of engineering; so he could seal off decks and put up force fields wherever he needed to to block people from entering or exiting a corridor, hatch, turbo lift, etc.
 
The turbolift in Naked Time wasn't jammed, the turboshaft was simply too busy with traffic for a car to get through to the bridge (hence Kirk's order to Uhura for her to "clear this tube").
 
Which version of TOS is canon? The version that we watched in the 60s and 70s! Before ENT was added to the mix because Berman thought TOS was an embarrassment! And long before the endlessly futuristic Discovery was conceived which also was added because TOS needed to be brought into the twenty first century kicking and screaming! I wonder why they didn't just edit in the new effects and costumes onto the existing episodes then instead? :techman:
JB
 
I mean, you gotta admit, watching a TOS episode and now knowing there's a corridor and a whole bunch of extra consoles behind the ones we saw...even the most rabid DSC-hater would get a twinge. :)

Why would there be a continuity error? The Enterprise in Discovery is from 2257-8, nearly a decade before TOS. We know the ship was completely refitted between TOS and TMP, so the simplest explanation is obviously that it was also refitted before Kirk's 5-year mission.

It would be a continuity error based upon Ríu ríu chíu's comment where he specified watching a TOS episode and knowing there was a corridor there. Context of Ríu ríu chíu's comment is that the corridor and extra consoles are really there in the TOS era and we just didn't notice them.
 
In what way? Riley had full control of engineering; so he could seal off decks and put up force fields wherever he needed to to block people from entering or exiting a corridor, hatch, turbo lift, etc.

Kirk only tried the turbolift. He didn't even bother with any alternate routes.
 
It would be a continuity error based upon Ríu ríu chíu's comment where he specified watching a TOS episode and knowing there was a corridor there. Context of Ríu ríu chíu's comment is that the corridor and extra consoles are really there in the TOS era and we just didn't notice them.

Yes, I know the gist of the comment I was responding to. Duh. My point is that the premise of said comment doesn't make sense because there's a decade between the two series and therefore there is no reason to assume the bridge configuration must be the same.
 
Technically the remastered versions (which is not really a correct term since effects wise it's reimagined rather than remastered?) are the canon ones since they appear by default now on streaming and TV. But surely the original episodes are canon by any logical sense.

In truth it doesn't really matter much because the effects make little difference on any of the stories anyway. That's why I'm not too bothered about the alteration of the originals (although it's important they're made available, as they thankfully have been - unlike the deal with Star Wars!)
 
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