Which version of TMP should I watch?
- Thread starter Tribble Threat
- Start date
The SLV also exists on laser disc (I have a copy 
).
).
Used to the long version, and find it jarring abit when im expecting a scene and it's. Not there.
Sad it's only vhs or TV ( that was my version growing up. Vhs recorded from ABC movie Monday night with hand pause pushed removal of commercials. )
Sad it's only vhs or TV ( that was my version growing up. Vhs recorded from ABC movie Monday night with hand pause pushed removal of commercials. )
This would be my basic view, too. For all its flaws and limitations, the "Director's Edition" is the most layered, balanced, and watchable version. (In the past, I may have had to say that through gritted teeth).
On the other hand, as you just pointed out, it's only available on DVD. And moreover, it's one of the weaker-looking DVD releases of a major studio film.
LOL! Pithy summation.
Oh, Paramount: Why do you subject us to these dilemmas?
Apparently, Paramount didn't give them much of a budget in the first place -- and what little they had, depending on what you read and who you believe, may have been mismanaged and misappropriated.
All I know is how disappointed and bewildered I was when I bought the "Director's Edition" on DVD and fired it up for the first time. This was year's ago, before HD -- it still looked rough to me, even then.
The DE print is terribly dirty. The transfer itself also has highly-questionable artifacts/issues, like the presence of interlaced video fields, which should never be the case for a feature film presentation.
Some of the added effects are also very below-par and look like they were finished on video or for a low-budget television production. One of the worst offenders is the wing-walk at the end when V'Ger is outputting those steps.
I really can't imagine how all this translates if one puts the DVD in their Blu-ray machine and tries to watch it upscaled. Some DVD transfers look reasonable when upscaled (maybe not so much, however, on a modern 4K TV), but I imagine TMP's DE transfer would be pretty disappointing and hard to enjoy. This basically leaves modern viewers who are new to the film (and who don't want their viewing experience utterly ruined) to stick with the theatrical cut on Blu-ray (which offers a superior picture, but even that transfer has had heavy noise reduction applied and looks like a Hollywood actor daubed in too much concealer). This epic science-fiction film is now 40+ years old. It deserves a lot better.
Ah! A very good reason to watch the original, indeed!
Removing that RED ALERT and that computer voice for the DE -- what were they thinking?
It's funny because, at the time, and even more recently, a common endorsement of the newer (CGI) effects was/is: "They didn't do a George Lucas and have the effects call attention to themselves." Yeah, but they applied some relatively cheap-looking effects, didn't they? Heck, at least Lucas did his effects for the "Special Edition" release of the Original Trilogy in HD (and some bits were even shot as new live-action inserts).
Another strike against the "Director's Edition" of TMP are certain trims that Robert Wise or the production team made to the theatrical cut. That is worse than Lucas-style editing; who tended to add things, rather than take them away (though there are exceptions: e.g., the removal of Vader's enraged "Bring my shuttle!" on Cloud City TESB, and the replacement of two musical sequences with new ones in ROTJ).
These are quite small trims in the DE for the most part, but if you know the theatrical cut well, they can seem jarring and be a source of irritation. For instance, in addition to slightly reducing the long flybys over V'Ger, the production team also tweaked and erased dialogue in a few places, and it has a slight flattening effect. In the crew briefing scene on the Recreation Deck, we learn that V'Ger is 2 AU in diameter. In the theatrical cut, it was a whopping 82 AU. This incision in the audio field is small and pretty sneaky. Were they scared of V'Ger seeming too godly and mighty?
Another small deletion in the same scene is Kirk twice demanding "Viewer off"; the second time with emphasis: "VIEWER OFF!" In the DE, the second command is absent. Again, were they scared of making Kirk seem too bossy toward a female crew member (it's Uhura who responds to this command), and were they concerned that it made women seem overly afraid and dopey in the face of great danger? I really hope that wasn't their thinking. Many crew in the film are startled by V'Ger and sometimes shocked into a kind of pseudo-paralysis. And Kirk is meant to be heavy-handed with other personnel at this point in the story. These feel like silly reductions that dull the teeth of the movie.
On the other hand, an enormously important piece that the DE restores (missing in the theatrical cut) is Spock's arresting "tear" scene on the bridge, shortly before Kirk and Co. journey out to the V'Ger plaza. It is quite tragic this wasn't included in the original cut; and a bit annoying the DE has this serious advantage over the theatrical, given its other problems. But it does -- and it should definitely be noted. Some of Leonard Nimoy's disdain for the film can probably be accounted for because this scene and other material was left out originally.
Oh, yeah: it's also good to see a bit of Ilia's healing touch with Chekov when he gets shocked at his console on the bridge. My perfect version of TMP would, I guess, be a blend of the theatrical cut and the DE, with a superior print and better effects. I think the TV version is a bit over-extended. But some of those lines! "I would never take advantage of a sexually immature species." Okay, I wish we had that bit in the DE. I guess I like the movie too much to see all this stuff go. Hopefully, one day, TMP will truly get an edit and a high-quality release it so desperately deserves. If it doesn't, well, I could live with the DE -- but bring it out in proper 4K, for the love of Shatner's toupee!
I agree with much of what you say, although I saw the theatrical version for the first time last year!
I do own the DE on Dvd and the SLV on VHS but I found a HD fan edit of the DE last year and I'm using that as the basis of my hybrid cut. I upscaled the SLV out takes from the Dvd and I've been able to edit much of the missing dialogue back in.
The slight trim to the SLV means Kirk's second "Viewer off" looks a bit more abrupt but I still prefer it. I managed to combine the red alert claxon by looping it into the SLV scene and I bled Uhura's filler dialogue into the DE scene so it doesn't drag so much.
I reckon I got 80% of the SLV dialogue back in. I didn't touch the Klingon scene, although I'm open to suggestions. I also took Majel's reaction shot from the SLV in Ilia's quarters because the DE one is too delayed and I shortened the gap between "Why it's Mister........." "Spock!" It only took about a month.
I went a bit power crazed though and decided to add in extra dialogue for Rand and my version of the missing Memory Wall scene so I'm still plugging away changing Kirk's spacesuit currently.
My issues with the DE have always been that it's half-measures in terms of tightening the film, ignoring what Wise in 1980 said he wanted to do to it, and fannish concerns injecting themselves in the film.
- The awful sound mix with its totally out of place TOS bridge ambience and other sins
- The pointless and singular chyron at San Francisco
- VFX upgrades that erase the original intent in several shots (i.e. San Francisco design)
- The I-never-studied-cinematography design of several new VFX shots (looking at you, blando and directional-continuity-violating asteroid explosion and dullest-angle-possible V'ger reveal)
- Several mediocre even for 2000 VFX (i.e. the awful wingwalk with on-twos sparkle animations and robotic CG human figures, the new shots of the "orbiting devices" which are orders of magnitude bigger than seen previously)
- Wasting very limited budget and time on things that don't matter like the airtram station, which was fine as it was, as opposed to doing something (e.g. storyboarded but never-filmed VFX shots on the Enterprise attempting evasive maneuvers to avoid the V'ger energy bolt (the live action footage is there in the SLV)
- etc.
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Network TV cut - the special longer version on VHS that Orac said. That had other footage that added a little more to the plot and completing scenes, even if you can see scaffolding and other production equipment in some scenes.
The director's cut feels even more disjointed at times and, worse, they replace the cool computer voice with something I refuse to describe because it's so bloody awful... despite showing VGER's exterior and a couple nice Enterprise POV shots, I've never viewed the director's cut since it came out.
It helps to watch it on a big display since the movie is about a sense of scale along with character progressions. It's quite unique.
The director's cut feels even more disjointed at times and, worse, they replace the cool computer voice with something I refuse to describe because it's so bloody awful... despite showing VGER's exterior and a couple nice Enterprise POV shots, I've never viewed the director's cut since it came out.
It helps to watch it on a big display since the movie is about a sense of scale along with character progressions. It's quite unique.
Interesting range of opinions.
I admit, I do feel some conflict about it all. As beautiful as TMP is, there's no optimal or definitive version, in my opinion. But in a way, that only adds to its beauty and the intrigue of the whole endeavour (or, ahem, enterprise)...
Good luck with all this! You sound like a busy man. You're the Atlas of TMP fans, trying to hold up the whole darn sky on your shoulders. Eventually, there's probably going to be a very pristine version of TMP, and it'll probably come from its devoted fans. And if you ask me, it's maybe gained a few more of those, over the years. I wasn't actually super-keen on the film the first time I saw it (around the time the DE came to DVD). But it grew quite strongly on me once I read some fan commentary and got more into its torrid production (and in parallel: watching my interest in most of the other ST movies, on an individual basis, fall).
Don't forget the cruddy starfield -- highly reminiscent of that classic Windows 95/98 screensaver -- added to the start of the film to accompany the musical overture. Gee, I wonder where the inspiration for that came from?
Another offender in the DE is the fake-looking nacelle they added in the background of the Officer's Lounge. It looks like something from a 1990s video game.
You're now reminding me of why the DE immediately struck me as off/weird, and later irked me on deeper levels after I joined this forum and read many of TheGodThing's posts, learning a lot about TMP in the process.
I admit... I am quite fond of extended TV cuts. That one has certainly added to TMP's legendary status. Like the KCOP cut of "Superman: The Movie". Man, I was shocked when Warner Bros. finally released that on Blu-ray! A 188-minute version of TMP would be kickass! Well, to me and about twelve other people, I suppose.
I admit, I do feel some conflict about it all. As beautiful as TMP is, there's no optimal or definitive version, in my opinion. But in a way, that only adds to its beauty and the intrigue of the whole endeavour (or, ahem, enterprise)...
Good luck with all this! You sound like a busy man. You're the Atlas of TMP fans, trying to hold up the whole darn sky on your shoulders. Eventually, there's probably going to be a very pristine version of TMP, and it'll probably come from its devoted fans. And if you ask me, it's maybe gained a few more of those, over the years. I wasn't actually super-keen on the film the first time I saw it (around the time the DE came to DVD). But it grew quite strongly on me once I read some fan commentary and got more into its torrid production (and in parallel: watching my interest in most of the other ST movies, on an individual basis, fall).
Don't forget the cruddy starfield -- highly reminiscent of that classic Windows 95/98 screensaver -- added to the start of the film to accompany the musical overture. Gee, I wonder where the inspiration for that came from?
Another offender in the DE is the fake-looking nacelle they added in the background of the Officer's Lounge. It looks like something from a 1990s video game.
You're now reminding me of why the DE immediately struck me as off/weird, and later irked me on deeper levels after I joined this forum and read many of TheGodThing's posts, learning a lot about TMP in the process.
I admit... I am quite fond of extended TV cuts. That one has certainly added to TMP's legendary status. Like the KCOP cut of "Superman: The Movie". Man, I was shocked when Warner Bros. finally released that on Blu-ray! A 188-minute version of TMP would be kickass! Well, to me and about twelve other people, I suppose.
AND losing the PUMP DEMI font.
I prefer the 1983 TV Cut but: given a choice between the Theatrical Version from 1979 or the Director's Cut from 2001... go with the Theatrical Version.
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Reading these differences I'll have to re-watch the Theatrical, and the TV cut again. My Dad has those versions of the film, I only have the DE, I don't remember how long the TV cut was but I heard it was very long.
Seems like all of these versions have something to offer. I would love to see a fan create a super cut of the film.
I am! Although no cut will satisfy everyone. I've added back extra dialogue from most of the scenes (I haven't touched the Klingons, Epsilon IX, Kirk's my God, and a bit of Chekov sitting down, and there are probably other small things). I shortened the gap for why it's Mister.......... Spock.
Unfortunately, I then went power crazed. I re-added the Memory Wall scene but with Rand instead of Spock and moved Kirk and Spock's reunion inside V'Ger, in Kirk's original spacesuit.
Actually, linking in the scenes from the SLV was generally quite easy. I added some background noise and the red alert claxon. I recommend having a go if you have the Dvd. I had to do a few soundtrack tweaks so the music transitions were not too jarring.
I'm currently vocoding dialogue that I wasn't able to crib from TOS existing dialogue, with mixed results.
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Were there any issues with the aspect ratio of TV and the letterboxing from the transfers when you edited them?
