Which Trek Episodes Have Aged Badly?

[JonnyQuest037]

Which episodes of Trek were fine on first airing, but time has not been kind to?

Please note I'm not looking for episodes that were bad at the time, or looking to turn this thread into a giant bash fest. I'm just looking for moments that play weird or badly when we're looking at them today, either from budget limitations, outdated special effects, changing societal attitudes, or science marching on. It could be anything from the 60s era sexism of TOS calling grown women "girls," TNG referring to Fermat's Last Theorem as unsolved in "The Royale" when a proof was found for it in the 90s, or prop limitations or stuntpeople becoming noticeable in HD when they weren't before.

What do you say, folks?

 

[Push The Button]

I always thought of the sets and props in TNG as being a cut above their TOS counterparts, but HD has revealed the same sorts of blemishes, such as poor painting, sloppy carpentry, misapplied decals, and the usual dust dirt and fingerprints.

 

[STR]

DS9 Profit and Lace would fall under the societal label. Not just the main ferengi-in-drag main plot but the subplot that boils down to Quark getting away with sexually harassing his employee. TBH, the subplot comes across worse in the year of #MeToo. The drag...I mean it's bad in concept but was executed fairly inoffensively.

The last shot of What You Leave Behind (the zoom out), while clearly ambitious for the time, has aged poorly. Like...not even 90's era video game good. I'm not sure that episode fairs well plotwise either, though it was well received at the time it aired.

There's also the TNG episode that mentions the unsolved Fermat's Theorem...which IIRC was solved before TNG went off the air.

You can also notice in HD all of the dark construction paper they use to black out glare on the rear wall panels of the TNG bridge in S1-S2.

Also, TNG civilian attire. All of it. DS9 wasn't great (its super 90's), but i could imagine someone with exceptionally bad taste wearing most of those outfits. TNG was a particular kind of awful. Nobody would wear those things. Ever.

 

[Jack Watkins]

60's Trek sexism doesn't bother me so much as 90s Trek sexism, because they should have known better. Watching Jeri Ryan/T'Pol walk around their ships in those catsuits is painful in the age of #metoo.

I'd agree with STR regarding Quark and the Ferengi. I wouldn't point to "Profit and Lace" in particular (as it was universally reviled back in the day), but Quark certainly got away with a lot of casual sexism in better episodes.

Jonathan Archer's "George Bush diplomacy" in the Delphic Expanse also doesn't play well, but at least he showed introspection after Enterprise returned to Earth.

 

[Farscape One]

To be fair about "PROFIT AND LACE" (And this episode is in the very bottom of my list of DS9 episodes.), and all the other times Quark would proposition his female employees, dating all the way back to "CAPTIVE PURSUIT" in the beginning of season 1, it was perfectly legal and culturally fine in Ferengi society. The point of the episode, and the depiction of Ferengi in general I believe, is to show how backward that thinking is.

I think we can't apply human standards of appropriate behavior to aliens, because aren't they supposed to NOT be like humans?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Spock making light of Janice's sexual assault in "The Enemy Within".

Khan, the "Sikh from Northern India" as imagined by people who had never seen a Sikh or perhaps even an Indian. And his brownface.

Klingon brownface in TOS.

TNG's visit to Black Savage planet.

Tasha's "say no to drugs" speech to Wesley in "Symbiosis", although I guess they meant well.

 

[Jack Watkins]

I think we can't apply human standards of appropriate behavior to aliens, because aren't they supposed to NOT be like humans?

I appreciate that on a practical level (it would be hubris and destructive to force a planet's culture to reflect our values), but DS9 played it cutesy while saying very little. Simply showing the Ferengi as sexist wasn't enough; they needed to be confronted by the other characters so to create dialog. Having Kira slap away the Grand Nagus's hand after being goosed, or Quark cross-dressing to support his mother, was weak. In fact, Jadzia would excuse their behavior as acceptable, and as a metaphor for our own world that's unfortunate. I'm not saying they needed to hammer us with it every time, but snickering at them didn't say much.

I was never 100% impressed by gender on DS9. They had some great women characters (Kira and Dax are the strongest Trek has), but it also had Leeta (and other dabo girls), Ferengi sex farces, holosuites (which almost exclusively catered to heterosexual men), and every female in the mirror universe as bi-sexual. I'm not saying the show was horrible because of this, but they didn't hit a homerun on the subject.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Yeah, the "you can only show interest in the same sex if you're part of the evil, twisted mirror universe" thing really sends a negative message.

 

[Tomalak]

Yeah, the "you can only show interest in the same sex if you're part of the evil, twisted mirror universe" thing really sends a negative message.

I don't think that was the intention. It's only really 'The Emperor's New Cloak' that does that with Ezri and Leeta.

The whole point of the Intendant was that our Kira was a child of war and poverty and oppression. She never had time for fun. The Intendant, however, had a totally different upbringing, and is a completely narcissistic hedonist. She'll do anything and screw anyone as long as it pleases her.

The Mirror Universe was always a more overtly sexualised place - Mirror, Mirror has the women wearing even less than the TOS minidresses, and clearly sex is used as a tool as much as violence.

I did think that Mirror Ezri was poorly handled, in isolation implying that gay people only exist in the weird Mirror Universe.

It might have been interesting if Ezri Tegan had been gay, and her joining to the Dax symbiont had the effect of changing who she was attracted to. It would have added an extra layer to her relationship with Worf and later Bashir. Gender is obviously irrelevant to Trill symbionts, as we saw in 'The Host' and 'Rejoined'.

I think the lack of overtly acknowledging anything other than heteronormative sexuality is what dates the old Trek shows the most, as much as the gender roles in TOS. It's great that Discovery has finally put that to rest.

Incidentally, there's an awfully cringey scene in '''Future Imperfect' where Riker's wife is described as "Riker, Mrs William T", as if it's still the fifties. I know it's because Riker doesn't know anything about her and they don't want to give it away too soon, but it's poor writing even for 1990, and it sounds dreadful now.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

I just recently watched "Is There In Truth No Beauty" again, an otherwise fine episode. But the "guy goes insane with love for a distant but intoxicating, elegant woman who just won't love him" trope was eye-roll worthy. Or like how Kirk and McCoy are like fawning over her at dinner. "Now that's a lady!" says McCoy. It's the kind of sexism that in the 60's probably didn't even cross tv producers/writers minds. It's not as bad as, oh I don't know, Turnabout Intruder, but it's still painfully outdated.

 

[Timo]

There's also the TNG episode that mentions the unsolved Fermat's Theorem...which IIRC was solved before TNG went off the air.

But that was never the question in "The Royale". Solution to Fermat's problem did not interest Picard. Fermat's solution to the problem - the "remarkable proof" - did. And science today is none the wiser as to what this solution might have been (although it's commonly accepted that no such solution ever really existed, and Fermat was merely joking or mistaken).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Jack Watkins]

The whole point of the Intendant was that our Kira was a child of war and poverty and oppression. She never had time for fun. The Intendant, however, had a totally different upbringing, and is a completely narcissistic hedonist. She'll do anything and screw anyone as long as it pleases her.

Kira's bisexuality, for me, only worked with Prime Kira; it spoke to her narcissism, which was a really cool angle.

Otherwise, yuck.

It's great that Discovery has finally put that to rest.

Spoiler: Discovery!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know... They pulled the evil bisexuality again with mirror-Georgiou and I'm torn on how they handled Culber's death. Time will tell on the latter.

 

[Tomalak]

[Edited out SPOILERS!!!]

There's no reason to believe Prime Georgiou wasn't bisexual. In any case, the Emperor is using sex for power.

Spoiler: Ditto.

Culber's death aside, his relationship with Stamets is arguably the best depiction of any relationship in Star Trek.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Which episodes of Trek were fine on first airing, but time has not been kind to?

Please note I'm not looking for episodes that were bad at the time, or looking to turn this thread into a giant bash fest. I'm just looking for moments that play weird or badly when we're looking at them today, either from budget limitations, outdated special effects, changing societal attitudes, or science marching on. It could be anything from the 60s era sexism of TOS calling grown women "girls," TNG referring to Fermat's Last Theorem as unsolved in "The Royale" when a proof was found for it in the 90s, or prop limitations or stuntpeople becoming noticeable in HD when they weren't before.

What do you say, folks?

Most of the episodes done on DS9 which in the 4th season the production transitioned from practical SFX to CGI conversion to NTSC video. Along with the bad storytelling the episodes which do stand up were the recycled practical SFX shots and scenes which shot on practical sets and locations.

 

[mos6507]

Jeri Ryan/T'Pol walk around their ships in those catsuits is painful in the age of #metoo.

Jeri Ryan didn't seem to mind, and she was banging her boss too. I guess personal responsibility has gone out of favor.

 

[Ethros]

Meh, everything ages and is always a product of it's time (which is often the point.) It looks like it was made in the 90s? Well probably because it was.
Discovery will look equally as "dated" in 30 years when we look back on the 2010s and 2020s

 

[Jack Watkins]

Jeri Ryan didn't seem to mind, and she was banging her boss too. I guess personal responsibility has gone out of favor.

Eh... where ya gonna find love these days if not the office? Since she was the most compelling character on the show, I doubt her being with Braga resulted in any special favors. It was Garrett Wang who should have been banging the boss for more screen time. ☺

 

[Jack Watkins]

[Edited for SPOILERS!]

Agreed, and if given time I bet they would have had the greatest romance in Trek history.

 

[Chuckles]

Kirk, Scott's and McCoy's conversation around the table at the beginning of Wolf in the Fold is definitely dated as far as how sexual views were back then.

 

[Jack Watkins]

TNG's "The Game," for that stupid, um... game.