Which timeline after the upcoming movie?

[gastrof]

How will you "grasp" new Trek novels after the new movie comes out?

Since it seems to invalidate a number of elements of the TOS era we knew, it seems to be establishing a tangent universe where certain things are no longer "facts".

If you read a 24th century novel, will you expect it to be an extension of the original timeline, or will you wait and see if the writer throws us a curve and says something that clearly shows Trek XI is being held as valid history?

Also, when you read a TOS era or Kirk-movie-era novel, which timeline will you be assuming it takes place in? Will you go by things like actor's likenesses on the covers? What if it has no such likenesses? What if someone from the movie is on the cover, but something said in the book then clashes with the movie timeline and falls back on the "real" TOS continuity? (Worse, what if the cover features an original TOS actor's face, but in the book things are said that make it plainly a part of the XI timeline?)

Just wondering how the continuity change will affect future novels and your reading of them.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

The short answer is, "Nobody knows yet."

The long answer is, "Once we see the movie, we'll be in a better position to judge."

No, seriously, we can speculate until we're blue in the face (and we often do here), but everyone here is as much in the dark as everyone else about what the film is, where it stands in relation to things past and present, and what it means for the franchise as a whole.

Wait and see, that's all I can offer. *shrug*

 

[William Leisner]

How will you "grasp" new Trek novels after the new movie comes out?

Between my thumb and the other four fingers.



Oh, come on, someone had to say it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I'm sticking with my assumption that Old Spock will fix the damage to the timeline such that the new one will be very much like the old. Certainly enough like it that any TOS novel ever written could take place in either timeline.

 

[gastrof]

The short answer is, "Nobody knows yet."

The long answer is, "Once we see the movie, we'll be in a better position to judge."

No, seriously, we can speculate until we're blue in the face (and we often do here), but everyone here is as much in the dark as everyone else about what the film is, where it stands in relation to things past and present, and what it means for the franchise as a whole.

Wait and see, that's all I can offer. *shrug*

Sorry, but no.

The movie is plainly showing a different series of events (such as the traditional TOS uniforms being worn before Kirk is assigned to the Enterprise, let alone made its Captain), so this isn't speculation.

It IS a different timeline.

Now, back to the question-
How will the KNOWN changes to the timeline in the movie affect your reading of future novels (specifics outlined above)?

 

[gastrof]

I'm sticking with my assumption that Old Spock will fix the damage to the timeline such that the new one will be very much like the old. Certainly enough like it that any TOS novel ever written could take place in either timeline.

Gary Mitchell being killed before the five year mission? The uniforms worn at the time of his death? Kelso being on the Enterprise at that time? McCoy not being there yet?

 

[shapeshifter]

Assuming it is a new time line I would bet the author(s) will give an explanation of which one said novel takes place in. Like they sometimes do now by giving placement of their story in the current time line.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The movie is plainly showing a different series of events

We have no idea what "the movie is plainly showing". All we have seen so far is that the TRAILER is showing some things that are APPARENTLY different.

(such as the traditional TOS uniforms being worn before Kirk is assigned to the Enterprise, let alone made its Captain)

That is hardly definitive.

The entire fleet doesn't necessarily have to wear the same uniform styles at all times.

Look at B5, for instance. In the pilot ep, we see the Earth uniforms without the leather strap down the middle that we see in all subsequent episodes. But flashback eps that take place before that, also show the later uniform...So obviously that style took some time to 'ripple' throughout the fleet.

so this isn't speculation.

Logically, the only thing we can have before the film comes out IS speculation.

Gary Mitchell being killed before the five year mission? The uniforms worn at the time of his death? Kelso being on the Enterprise at that time? McCoy not being there yet?

What the hell does Gary have to do with all this? Or Kelso? Those were one-off characters. Their presence, or lack thereof, means nothing in the larger scheme of things.

As for McCoy: Show me one episode in TOS where he specifically says when he came aboard, who his predecessor is, and why he couldn't have been on the ship at the same time as Piper or Boyce (or why any of these doctors couldn't be a temporary replacement for any other).

 

[JD]

I'm with the others here, it's completely pointless to even begin to speculate until the new movie comes out. Even thought it does appear to be a new timeline, we still don't know exactly how different it is, or what shape it will be in after it ends until the movie comes out, so there is really no point in trying to guess.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

The movie is plainly showing a different series of events (such as the traditional TOS uniforms being worn before Kirk is assigned to the Enterprise, let alone made its Captain), so this isn't speculation.

It IS a different timeline.

No, it's not.

You're making an unwarranted assumption. You're assuming that the trappings actually mean something. You're assuming that the look and feel of the Enterprise, the uniforms, even the characters themselves, have some intrinsic meaning.

The problem is, we're not going to have a meeting of the minds on this question because we're coming at the trailer from entirely different conceptual frameworks.

Now, back to the question-
How will the KNOWN changes to the timeline in the movie affect your reading of future novels (specifics outlined above)?

Umm, it actually won't affect my reading of the novels.

 

[Christopher]

Sorry, but no.

The movie is plainly showing a different series of events (such as the traditional TOS uniforms being worn before Kirk is assigned to the Enterprise, let alone made its Captain), so this isn't speculation.

It IS a different timeline.

Does that mean TOS Remastered is in a different timeline from TOS because Flint's mansion and the Aurora and the Tantalus penal colony look different? Or that First Contact is in a different timeline from "Metamorphosis" because Cochrane looked different?


Yes, there are some overt contradictions. But there are similarly great contradictions within existing canon. Khan's supermen were multiethnic and in their 20s and 30s in "Space Seed," but in TWOK suddenly they were a bunch of youthful Aryans 15 years later. And even after being stranded in TOS's first season, they had paraphernalia (Khan's medallion, a medical console in their dwellings) from the movie era. Data said in the TNG pilot that he was class of '78, and two dozen episodes later it turned out the year was 2363. And he used contractions routinely until it was suddenly asserted that he couldn't. There are any number of ways that different Trek episodes, films, and series directly contradict each other, but we gloss over those contradictions and pretend they all fit together in a consistent universe. It's too early to say yet whether the movie's contradictions, though real enough, are great enough to be irreconcilable, given how many blatant contradictions we've already managed to live with.

Now, back to the question-
How will the KNOWN changes to the timeline in the movie affect your reading of future novels (specifics outlined above)?

Even if it is a separate timeline, it's still too early to answer that question meaningfully. You pose a lot of "what if" questions that may or may not have any basis in what really happens.

For one thing, I don't think that future novels would have to be as rigorously segregated by timeline as you assume. Even granted that the movie paints a different origin story, it seems that the characters will all end up in the same places, so it could easily be possible to do TOS novels that would be compatible with either version depending on the preferences of the reader. As for 24th-century novels, they're far enough removed that they could be presumed to have been a continuation of the "new" TOS history all along, if that's the way it turns out. Again, there are too many uncertainties about what the movie will actually do, and to what degree, to jump to any conclusions yet.

 

[JNG]

Just wondering how the continuity change will affect future novels and your reading of them.

If the movie bombs, forget about it. If it is a hit, there will be pictures of the new actors all over the books, and probably several fannish books that engage in constant and terrible stretches to reconcile the new movie with parts of the existing continuity.

 

[Trent Roman]

If you read a 24th century novel, will you expect it to be an extension of the original timeline, or will you wait and see if the writer throws us a curve and says something that clearly shows Trek XI is being held as valid history?

I don't expect Trek XI to have any impact on 24th century novels, since the events being rewritten take place a hundred years ago from that standpoint, which, short of a major galactic incident going in a different direction, is plenty of time for either continuity to become the 24th century we know now. The only problem would be if there's yet another 24th-century appearance by a TOS character, in which case you'd have to decide which version of the character it should be (I think it ought to be the original, for the logical reason that the later shows are descended from the original series).

Also, when you read a TOS era or Kirk-movie-era novel, which timeline will you be assuming it takes place in? Will you go by things like actor's likenesses on the covers? What if it has no such likenesses? What if someone from the movie is on the cover, but something said in the book then clashes with the movie timeline and falls back on the "real" TOS continuity? (Worse, what if the cover features an original TOS actor's face, but in the book things are said that make it plainly a part of the XI timeline?)

I hope that any future TOS books will make it clear to which continuity they belong by likenesses, graphics, typeface, a logo or whatever (and, if anything, I think it's likelier to get a old-school story with the new faces on the cover than vice-versa). A better question is: after the TOS books which are already scheduled are done, will any original Original Series books be made, or will everything being released in that era use the new film as framework?

If the movie bombs, forget about it. If it is a hit, there will be pictures of the new actors all over the books, and probably several fannish books that engage in constant and terrible stretches to reconcile the new movie with parts of the existing continuity.

Oy, I don't even want to imagine any The Good That Men Do-type exercise in wild retconning to make the upcoming film fit with the rest of the universe. "The entire Star Trek franchise up until now has been a holodeck program run in Barclay's brain by Section 31 to conceal the terrible secret of Nero's middle name--Gladys."

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[tranya]

These threads seriously crack me up at how many people still think a reset button's going to be pushed and we'll get "basically TOS" after it's over.

There's still a lot of ostriches sticking their heads in the sand around here. The more diplomatic (or perhaps just self-aware) ones seem to at least be saying "well, we'll wait and see."

I can't wait to see reactions to the film when/if TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY continuity is wiped out by this film. Looking forward to it, in fact.

 

[KRAD]

^ Nobody's saying they think a reset button's going to be pushed, they're saying that we don't know if a reset button's going to be pushed. And neither do you. The only people who do know aren't talking.

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

no more reset buttons! please! let's move on with our trek!

 

[Dayton Ward]

There's still a lot of ostriches sticking their heads in the sand around here. The more diplomatic (or perhaps just self-aware) ones seem to at least be saying "well, we'll wait and see."

Are we going to go through this again? Because, if we are, then I'm all out of "diplomacy," particularly if this is the tack you're going to keep taking.

 

[William Leisner]

^ Oh, yeah, man!!

*pops popcorn and grabs a front-row seat*

 

[JAG]

Sits next to Mr. Leisner!

We don't know what is going to happen yet. When we do know, a decision will be made. Personally, if I don't like the direction the books go in (very doubtful), I have hundreds of trek books to re-read.

 

[gastrof]

We have no idea what "the movie is plainly showing". All we have seen so far is that the TRAILER is showing some things that are APPARENTLY different...

I think you're reaching. Once you said this, you lost me.

Kirk IS on Pike's Enterprise. The rest of the crew are all there already, Kirk isn't the ship's Captain. They ARE already wearing something like the series uniforms (only with silver rather than gold on the rank markins and an actual BADGE). The Enterprise DOES look different. The bridge DOES look different...

Again, once you denied these facts, you lost me.