So which Star Trek movies passed the Bechdel Test? Off hand, I can only think of two: Generations (Lursa and B'Etor talked to each other) and Insurrection (Troi and Crusher talked to each other) Am I forgetting any others?
Which Star Trek movies passed the Bechdel Test?
- Thread starter Argus Skyhawk
- Start date
TMP has a conversation between Chapel and the Ilia-bot about Deltan fashion accessories. That might count.
On second thought, I don't think they actually spoke to each other, rather were both talking to Dr. McCoy. Hmmmmmmm....
On second thought, I don't think they actually spoke to each other, rather were both talking to Dr. McCoy. Hmmmmmmm....
Beverly and Ogawa talk to each other in First Contact, briefly. And also with Lily, later on.
In Star Trek 2009, Uhura talks with Gaila about Starfleet stuff, while... um... stripping down to her underwear. I'm not sure if we should count this.
In Star Trek 2009, Uhura talks with Gaila about Starfleet stuff, while... um... stripping down to her underwear. I'm not sure if we should count this.
Both female characters must have names to count.
True. Another very weak pass.
Yeah, to be fair a lot of Star Trek doesnt pass this stuff. Dax and Kira chatted a lot in DS9 but even then it was about dudes (captain boday, that trill brothel). Not until January came along and certainly when 7o9 joined would stuff have passed on a regular basis.
They definitely talk about other things too. A good example would be The Siege.
Yeah I'm sure they do. Unfortunately those too popped into my mind first.
Crusher and Troi had a lot of talk about men too. I'm sure there were times when they didn't but I don't recall much.
Season 5 of Voyager gets a 100% pass.
For the record Janeway and Torres had many conversations that passed before Seven showed up and then Seven and Torres also had a lot that passed. Seven, Janeway and Torres had frequent conversations about the Doctor (does that count?) and one that stands out to me is Seven and Torres talking about Tom in "DRIVE".
It's almost a reversal of the test...trying to find out times when they WERE talking about a man.
For the record Janeway and Torres had many conversations that passed before Seven showed up and then Seven and Torres also had a lot that passed. Seven, Janeway and Torres had frequent conversations about the Doctor (does that count?) and one that stands out to me is Seven and Torres talking about Tom in "DRIVE".
It's almost a reversal of the test...trying to find out times when they WERE talking about a man.
For the benefit of people who aren't up on every pop culture reference...
From Wikipedia:
Plenty of truck commercials fail this "test". So?
Maybe it isn't what you are, but what (cash-disposing marketing demographic) you aren't.
Adolescent males have crap taste, what are you gonna do? That's who spends at the movies. You want more movies to pass the B. test, SPEND MORE AT THE MOVIES. No business cares how clever you are. Spend more, they will kiss your pretty behinds.
Now, I didn't pull my punches out of respect.
From Wikipedia:
Plenty of truck commercials fail this "test". So?
Maybe it isn't what you are, but what (cash-disposing marketing demographic) you aren't.
Adolescent males have crap taste, what are you gonna do? That's who spends at the movies. You want more movies to pass the B. test, SPEND MORE AT THE MOVIES. No business cares how clever you are. Spend more, they will kiss your pretty behinds.
Now, I didn't pull my punches out of respect.
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To be fair, I think there's more of a two way relationship - between representation/narrative/perspectives in pop culture, and what pop culture will consume - than what you are insinuating. Pop culture doesn't just react to the demands of the consumer base. Big business's create demand. Pop culture has the power, and uses it to mold the moral center of the next generation. If that wasn't the case, then we would be our parents.
Or maybe there's just a god-awful lot of sexism in the entertainment industry and people need to be reminded that it's so bad that an allegedly progressive property like Star Trek has trouble living up to ``has two female characters talk to each other about something that's not a man''.
Somebody on bechdeltest.com makes the point that
I'm inclined to agree with that, though I suspect opinions will vary.
However, I do think it is somewhat foiled by the fact that while Beverly and Troi are the only ones speaking, the conversation appears to take place primarily so that Data can observe it and repeat it for laughs.
ST09 passes on a similar technicality. Uhura tells Gaila about Rura Penthe, but the only reason that conversation is in the movie is so that it can be overheard by Kirk, hiding under the bed.
My opinions of the Bechdel test aside, star trek can still be progressive as (for the most part, some absolutely horrible clunkers in early Tng aside) gender simply isn't a deciding factor any more, any conversations between two male characters are just as likely to occur between two female, or a female and a male.
Beverlys bridge staff in Descent are mostly female, she has the same conversation that would occur if Picard and Riker are on the bridge.
Now, how it stands as a piece of 20th century entertainment to a viewer is different, but in terms of portraying a society where equality has been achieved? There it almost entirely succeeds.
I would suggest a revised version of the test be instigated for science fiction, where the roles of gender are often different, as indeed are the species.
(lursa and b'etor are talking about two men, albeit merely as objects to be traded, so probably still fails the test, such as it is.)
Just think, if Wesley had stayed a girl, half the principles on Tng would have been female. Gene wouldn't know where to put himself, as it were. (2.5 of the cast aren't even human as well don't forget, and Betazoid borders on being a matriarchy it seems. And Bajor....well.)
Beverlys bridge staff in Descent are mostly female, she has the same conversation that would occur if Picard and Riker are on the bridge.
Now, how it stands as a piece of 20th century entertainment to a viewer is different, but in terms of portraying a society where equality has been achieved? There it almost entirely succeeds.
I would suggest a revised version of the test be instigated for science fiction, where the roles of gender are often different, as indeed are the species.
(lursa and b'etor are talking about two men, albeit merely as objects to be traded, so probably still fails the test, such as it is.)
Just think, if Wesley had stayed a girl, half the principles on Tng would have been female. Gene wouldn't know where to put himself, as it were. (2.5 of the cast aren't even human as well don't forget, and Betazoid borders on being a matriarchy it seems. And Bajor....well.)
