Which screen version of Batman is your favourite?

[JD]

I don't think there's any reason to be embarrassed by the '66 Batman. For what it was, a faithful if satirical adaptation of the comics of the era, it was extremely well-executed. It had a very strong cast and impressive production values, and was one of the most innovative sitcoms ever made. It made Batman a household name, a far more popular character than he'd ever been before. It helped shape Batman comics as we know them today, because it prompted DC editor Julius Schwartz to reintroduce the largely-abandoned rogues' gallery to the comics, recognizing that such prominent, colorful villains would make good material for television (since he was aware the TV producers would be drawing on whatever the comics did). It led to the creation of Barbara Gordon through a similar mechanism.

So are you saying that she Barbara was created for the show?

 

[A beaker full of death]

^ She was.

 

[Duncan MacLeod]

Kevin Conroy is my favorite hands down, followed by Keaton, Kilmer, West, Bale and finally Clooney at the bottom.

Regarding Adam West, I remember watching his fight as Bruce Wayne in the movie and thinking he would have made an excellant TV private eye. Pity the man was typecast so badly after Batman.

BTW Bale's Batman sounds like he has laryngitis to me.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Yes. Adam West was a superb actor. The problem is, as Batman his job was to overact ridiculously, and he did that job brilliantly, and unfortunately got typecast as a ham or a hack as a result. But it takes great talent to do such a note-perfect job of overacting.

I'd love to have seen West get a career renaissance the way Lesley Nielsen did. I think he showed great comic timing in Batman and would have been superb in the likes of Airplane or Naked Gun.

Going along with what I said earlier re: Batman Forever, and in line with recent discussion about specific 'Bat-actors', Kilmer's Bruce Wayne/Batman is actually my second-favorite interpretation of the character behind Christian Bale's, and a pipe dream of mine is to see someone plant in Tim Burton's mind the idea of directly 'rebooting' his Batman films in some fashion using Kilmer in place of Keaton.

Have you seen Kilmer lately though? Total Fatman, sad to say.

 

[Christopher]

It helped shape Batman comics as we know them today, because it prompted DC editor Julius Schwartz to reintroduce the largely-abandoned rogues' gallery to the comics, recognizing that such prominent, colorful villains would make good material for television (since he was aware the TV producers would be drawing on whatever the comics did). It led to the creation of Barbara Gordon through a similar mechanism.

So are you saying that she Barbara was created for the show?

Indirectly. To quote a recent Alan Kistler column about Batgirl:

The live-action Batman TV series starring Adam West was getting to be pretty popular and the producers found that Catwoman gained a lot of interest from viewers. The producers asked DC Comics if there were other fun female characters they could bring into the TV show and editor Julius Schwartz suggested that some new women should be introduced into Batman’s world anyway.

After some discussion among the writers, the characters of Poison Ivy and a new Batgirl were introduced into the Dark Knight’s adventures.

So she appeared in the comics first, but was created so that the TV show would have more female characters to draw on. And so was Poison Ivy, although the show never got around to using her (though they did use similar femmes fatales on occasion).

 

[the G-man]

the disco scene, the one where Batman dances

Go-go. Disco was still 10 years away.

Actually, the term "discothèque" dates back to the 1940s and often used interchangably with the term "go go" in the sixties.

 

[the G-man]

[batgirl] appeared in the comics first, but was created so that the TV show would have more female characters to draw on. And so was Poison Ivy, although the show never got around to using her (though they did use similar femmes fatales on occasion).

Are you sure about that? Ivy's first appearance was in the June 1966 issue of Batman. The June issue would have gone on sale in March or April, or only 2-3 months after the series premiered. And, given comic book publication lead time, that would seem to indicate she was created no later than January 1966.

Batman didn't begin airing until January 12, 1966. So, while it is possible she was created after the show first aired, it seems unlikely.

Furthermore, before it began airing, most TV executives considered the show a likely flop (it was one of the worst tested pilots in history). As such, it seems unlikely DC would have been overly worried about synergy until February 1966 when the show was solidly established.

If had to guess, and I admit I could be wrong, I would think that DC created her pre-TV show in an attempt to shore up the book's sagging sales by introducing a little 'sex appeal' to the title and give Carmine Infantino (known at the time for being something of a "good girl" artist) another pretty villainess to draw.

 

[Greg Cox]

A shame Ivy never appeared on the tv show. She would have been a natural.

Maybe Ann-Margaret? Or Racquel Welch?

 

[JD]

It helped shape Batman comics as we know them today, because it prompted DC editor Julius Schwartz to reintroduce the largely-abandoned rogues' gallery to the comics, recognizing that such prominent, colorful villains would make good material for television (since he was aware the TV producers would be drawing on whatever the comics did). It led to the creation of Barbara Gordon through a similar mechanism.

So are you saying that she Barbara was created for the show?

Indirectly. To quote a recent Alan Kistler column about Batgirl:

The live-action Batman TV series starring Adam West was getting to be pretty popular and the producers found that Catwoman gained a lot of interest from viewers. The producers asked DC Comics if there were other fun female characters they could bring into the TV show and editor Julius Schwartz suggested that some new women should be introduced into Batman’s world anyway.

After some discussion among the writers, the characters of Poison Ivy and a new Batgirl were introduced into the Dark Knight’s adventures.

So she appeared in the comics first, but was created so that the TV show would have more female characters to draw on. And so was Poison Ivy, although the show never got around to using her (though they did use similar femmes fatales on occasion).

Huh, I didn't realize that. I figured she'd already been around for decades by the time the show aired. I didn't realize until fairly recently just how big of an impact these kinds of shows and movies have had on the original comics.

 

[barnaclelapse]

I'm a Kevin Conroy guy, in my mind that's how Batman sounds. Nobody else comes close. I like Michael Keaton and Christian Bale a lot as well.

Kevin Conroy is my definitive Batman, too. Michael Keaton is a close second. Christian Bale is increasingly annoying but still decent. George Clooney was a good Batman who got stuck with the worst script possible. Val Kilmer was awful, awful, awful. That's just my opinion.

Adam West is just a class all by himself. I can't seriously compare him to any of the other Batmans, but he's one of my favorites.

I've really enjoyed the work Diedrich Bader and Bruce Greenwood have done, and I unfortunately cannot remember the old 1940's serials. I've seen them, but it's been a long, long time.

The films go like this for me:
Batman Returns
TDK
Batman (1989)
Batman Begins
Batman: Mask of The Phantasm
Batman (1966)
Batman Forever
Batman Begins.

 

[A beaker full of death]

the disco scene, the one where Batman dances

Go-go. Disco was still 10 years away.

Actually, the term "discothèque" dates back to the 1940s and often used interchangably with the term "go go" in the sixties.

huh. Didn't know that. Thanks!

 

[Christopher]

Are you sure about that? Ivy's first appearance was in the June 1966 issue of Batman. The June issue would have gone on sale in March or April, or only 2-3 months after the series premiered. And, given comic book publication lead time, that would seem to indicate she was created no later than January 1966.

Batman didn't begin airing until January 12, 1966. So, while it is possible she was created after the show first aired, it seems unlikely.

Furthermore, before it began airing, most TV executives considered the show a likely flop (it was one of the worst tested pilots in history). As such, it seems unlikely DC would have been overly worried about synergy until February 1966 when the show was solidly established.

Well, the record shows that's not the case. As I said, well before the show premiered, back when it was just in development, DC editor Julius Schwartz decided to alter the Batman comics in a way that would make it better source material for a television show. Thanks to Fredric Wertham and the Comics Code, most of the major supervillains of the '40s and early '50s had been expunged from Batman comics, replaced by fanciful adventures in space and time and weirdness. But when Schwartz heard that a TV series was being developed based on Batman, he decided to bring back the rogues' gallery, because he realized that the show would be better if it had recurring villains who could be played by big-name guest stars, and he knew that the show's developers would be drawing on the comics and putting together their show based on it. So we know that Schwartz modified the comics to anticipate the TV series. That was before the pilot was made, before any of the network buzz about it being a likely flop.

So it seems to me that the synergy here wasn't about trying to capitalize on a known success, but about trying to help make the show better and improve its chances, so that it would provide better synergy and promotion for the comics in turn.

You'd have to ask Alan Kistler what his source was for listing Poison Ivy there. Maybe her creation was separate from Batgirl's. But her creation could've been part of that same initial push to reintroduce the rogues' gallery as a major component of the comic.

A shame Ivy never appeared on the tv show. She would have been a natural.

Maybe Ann-Margaret? Or Racquel Welch?

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh, my. That would've been extraordinary.

As divine as Raquel Welch was, I'd have to favor Ann-Margaret for Ivy; she looks the part more. (Kitten with a Vine?)

Hmm, what would the 2-parter's rhyming episode titles have been? "Ivy-Covered Hoods"/"Batman Gets the Goods." Or "How Green Was My Villain?"/"Ivy Makes a Killin'."


I've always thought it was a shame they never used Two-Face, since his fixation with the number two would've been a natural gimmick for the show. "I've got it, Robin! Two-Face's lair is the Janus Mask Company at the intersection of Second Avenue and Gemini Lane!" I guess the makeup would've been too expensive or too ghastly, but they could've gone the Phantom of the Opera route and had him hide the scarred side.

 

[the G-man]

Are you sure about that? Ivy's first appearance was in the June 1966 issue of Batman. The June issue would have gone on sale in March or April, or only 2-3 months after the series premiered. And, given comic book publication lead time, that would seem to indicate she was created no later than January 1966.

Batman didn't begin airing until January 12, 1966. So, while it is possible she was created after the show first aired, it seems unlikely.

Furthermore, before it began airing, most TV executives considered the show a likely flop (it was one of the worst tested pilots in history). As such, it seems unlikely DC would have been overly worried about synergy until February 1966 when the show was solidly established.

Well, the record shows that's not the case...

Do you have a source for the record your citing? Not because I'm calling you a liar but because I would enjoy reading more about the series and that era of the comics.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

My favorites.

Of the live action films:

The Dark Knight
Batman Begins
Batman ('89)
Batman Returns
Batman ('66)
Batman Forever
Batman & Robin

Of the Batman actors:

Christian Bale
Michael Keaton
Adam West
George Clooney
Val Kilmer

 

[Christopher]

Do you have a source for the record your citing? Not because I'm calling you a liar but because I would enjoy reading more about the series and that era of the comics.

I can't recall specifically where I read it, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it mentioned in more than one place. (That is, I'm certain I've seen it mentioned, and fairly sure it was in multiple places.)

 

[Greg Cox]

I've always thought it was a shame they never used Two-Face, since his fixation with the number two would've been a natural gimmick for the show. "I've got it, Robin! Two-Face's lair is the Janus Mask Company at the intersection of Second Avenue and Gemini Lane!" I guess the makeup would've been too expensive or too ghastly, but they could've gone the Phantom of the Opera route and had him hide the scarred side.

Yeah, I always assumed Two-Face was simply judged too horrific . . . .

 

[gblews]

I was hoping for another Superman show.

While George Reeves brought a great dignity and strength to the role of Superman, that show (written for children) wasn't exactly deep and/or serious after the first season. Let's not forget Chuck Connors as Sylvester J. Superman (and his donkey sidekick), Mr. Zero, and the time Perry White actually meets 'Great Caesar's Ghost.' I'd also argue that Jack Larson's Jimmy Olsen made Burt Ward's Robin look like the most competent sidekick in superhero history.

But most importantly, the Superman show didn't make fun of it's main characters, though it surely was the victim of some outlandish story ideas and outright bad writing. The Superman production staff was at no time intentionally holding it's heroic lead character up to ridicule.

But I did really like Robin's costume in the show. I thought it was near perfect. I also loved the Batmobile, and Neal Hefti's theme was just great. All this did for me though was to make me lament how good the show might have been if they had not been so intent on presenting something that the masses of 1960's T.V. watchers could laugh at. They were saying, "you don't have to feel stupid for liking this show because we (wink wink), made it stupid, so you're in on the joke".

On another note, I never thought of Jimmy Olsen as a sidekick - at least not like Robin was. In fact, unless you read those old Jimmy Olsen comics (and I did not), i think a plausible argument could be raised as to whether or not he was even Supe's "pal", I mean any more than Lois or any of the other recurring characters he rescued on a regular basis, was.

 

[Too Much Fun]

Apparently they were thinking of using Two-Face, but his origin would be changed from the acid-in-the-face of the comics (obviously too gruesome for that kind of show or even a serious show back then). Wikipedia (a dubious source, of course, but with an interesting story, nonetheless) says:

There had been plans for Two-Face to appear, depicted as a news anchor who was disfigured when a camera blew up in his face. Though Clint Eastwood was discussed for the role of Two-Face, the show was cancelled before any appearance by this character was made.

I liked Robin's costume too, except for the pantyhose or whatever you call what he was wearing on his legs. I was watching the show with a friend last summer and he was questioning why the hell the costume was like that.

I responded, "Well they wanted it like the comics costume at the time, and they couldn't have him going bare-legged, could they?". His response was that this look just doesn't work in live action. I agreed.

 

[the G-man]

I was hoping for another Superman show.

While George Reeves brought a great dignity and strength to the role of Superman, that show (written for children) wasn't exactly deep and/or serious after the first season. Let's not forget Chuck Connors as Sylvester J. Superman (and his donkey sidekick), Mr. Zero, and the time Perry White actually meets 'Great Caesar's Ghost.' I'd also argue that Jack Larson's Jimmy Olsen made Burt Ward's Robin look like the most competent sidekick in superhero history.

But most importantly, the Superman show didn't make fun of it's main characters, though it surely was the victim of some outlandish story ideas and outright bad writing. The Superman production staff was at no time intentionally holding it's heroic lead character up to ridicule.

I'm going to strongly disagree that the 1966 held Batman the character up to ridicule. While obviously a bit square, and prone to being placed in absurd situations, he was depicted as a brilliant scientist, a master detective, a superior athlete and, in his other identity, a dashing ladies' man. All the things he was (and usually is) in the comics.

 

[Dusty Ayres]

The Burton Batmobile is the most iconic, IMO.

I'll assume you were born after 1975.

But the Adam West one is also pretty good.

And water is a little damp.

The Burton Batmobile blows away the 1966 Batmobile (even though I still have a soft spot for it) by virtue of it being good enough to survive bullets and having a steel canopy instead of a plastic one that would shatter if hit by armor-piercing rounds. The Nolan Batmobile tops the first two even more by virtue of what it has (even though it was destroyed by what looks like a M72 LAW's rocket shell.)

Kevin Conroy is my favorite hands down, followed by Keaton, Kilmer, West, Bale and finally Clooney at the bottom.

I thought that Clooney was great, but was wrecked by a shitty script, as were the other actors.

BTW Bale's Batman sounds like he has laryngitis to me.

For a good reason; Batman's supposed to have a deeper voice as Batman (it separates both the Batman & Bruce Wayne identities, making it less likely that both will be connected.) Also Kevin Conroy's Batman/Bruce Wayne had the same kind of deep voice, at least in the first season of BTAS.