Which Religions Will Do Best In The Next Few Centuries?

[Phyzzx]

Plecostomus said:
Indeed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolob

Notice it's similarity to a certain plant mentioned in BSG? The original series creator was a Latter Day Saint, and the original story was based loosely on the trek of the early church members out of New York and across the country. They tried to settle several times but had problems each time, before they made it to what is now Utah.


That is the primary reason that the Latter Day Saints would want to go into space. To find Kolob, and to settle the question once and for all "What does God need with a starship?"

Hell, i'm LDS and I could give two hoots in hell about finding Kolob! Bring on the Klingons, and a quick trip to Risa And, maybe a wedding on Betazed...

On the note of LDS science fiction, anyone here read Orson Scott Card's Call of Earth series? It's a science fiction re-telling of the Book of Mormon. No kidding.

 

[misskim86]

Unless you eradicate a religion completely it will come back stronger just look at judaism

 

[Stardate]

[/QUOTE]

EliyahuQeoni said:

skep155 said:
Unlike Christianity with its meekness and supposed love for all regardless of whether they are your enemy, Islam is ruthless.

And totally unlike the loving meekness of the Crusades...

The Koran is written in first person as though God himself was narrating it to you, hence making every word of the Koran unquestionable to many Muslims.

Many Christians and Jews believe that their Bibles are the unquestionable word of God as well, despite not being written in the first person. So the difference isn't as great as it might sound.

First of all just to clarified, EliyahuQeoni do you know how the Crusades started in the first place? It wasn't offense as many beliefs thou at the end it turn out be exactly that.. Origin of the Crusades was defensive war to help Byzantine Christians in Asia Minor against invading Turkish Muslims. To give you bigger picture, if you go 1000 years back in time 99% people living in Asia Minor(present day Turkey)were Byzantine Christians(mostly Greek speaking)
Now they are 0% because at he end the Crusade's backfired and Turkish Muslim won. Byzantine Christians then suffered smiler to Jewish Holocaust, but unlike the Jews their Holocaust lasted almost millennium.

Regarding the Bible being unquestionable word of God by many Jews & Christians and you are right but those people often misinterpreted the Bible for their own benefits and mostly those people can be discredited and some cases laughed at.
However biggest difference is that Koran is literate the word of Allah himself. How can you question the word of Allah! That is the biggest reason why Islam can be so dangerous is because you are not allowed to question the Koran period. Perfect sample is recently a Afghan student was sentenced to death by Islamic court for questioning the treatment of women in the Koran.

 

[Stormrage]

First of all just to clarified, EliyahuQeoni do you know how the Crusades started in the first place? It wasn't offense as many beliefs thou at the end it turn out be exactly that.. Origin of the Crusades was defensive war to help Byzantine Christians in Asia Minor against invading Turkish Muslims. To give you bigger picture, if you go 1000 years back in time 99% people living in Asia Minor(present day Turkey)were Byzantine Christians(mostly Greek speaking)

1: Byzantine Empire was an Empire. It controlled people unwillingly. They weren't defending Byzantine Muslims they were helping them keep their empire. But that didn't stop them from killing Christians when they were massacring jews and Muslims in Jerusalem.

2: There were no Turkish Muslims. Turkey was ruled by the Byzantines. It's the arabs your talking about.

3: Your contradicting your self. You say Turkey was Christians yet they were being invaded by Turks?

Now they are 0% because at he end the Crusade's backfired and Turkish Muslim won. Byzantine Christians then suffered smiler to Jewish Holocaust, but unlike the Jews their Holocaust lasted almost millennium.

Thats not true. A lot of Christians lived in Turkey until the 1920s. They moved to Greece while muslims in Greece moved to Turkey. For the Muslims Christians = extra source of income. For every christian they killed it was one less bag of Gold. Which is why there was huge disputes over Egypt since it was A Christian nation the revenue from it was big.

That is the biggest reason why Islam can be so dangerous is because you are not allowed to question the Koran period.

I've shown in TNZ that the Koran calls for peace all the time. You my friend should do some research. Next time someone gives you a qoute from the Koran. Go to a neutral site that has the ENITRE koran and look up the qoute. You'll see the full picture.

 

[Stardate]

No my friend(Stormrage) is seems that you are little misinformed. First, What empire hasn't control people unwillingly. All empire are pretty much guilty of that statement. Byzantine(aka Eastern Roam Empire) was empire in 6th century who controlled Eastern Mediterranean and there were many nations under their sovereignty. However it all change when they where invaded by Muslim Arabs starting ca: 634 AD. They lost huge territory Levant, Egypt, North Africa to hands of Muslim Arabs before the end of the century. The Byzantine empire was now reduced to Anatolia, and some fragments of Italy and the Balkans which majority of the population were Byzantine Christian & Greek speaking.

They weren't defending Byzantine Muslims they were helping them keep their empire

I don't understand this remark. The Crusades weren't defending Byzantine Muslim because Byzantine were Christian. Byzantine Empire only asked the Pope for mercenaries for their armies to repulse invading Muslim Seljuk Turk from Christian Asia Minor.. They didnt want to start a Crusade to the Holy Land. You have to seperate the Byzantine from the Crusader. They where only defending their land against the Seljuk Muslim Turks.

But that didn't stop them from killing Christians when they were massacring Jews and Muslims in Jerusalem.

Unfortunately the Crusading armies were very barbaric and Independence and saw opportunity to create their own kingdoms in the Levant(Syria & Holy Land) rather then helping the Byzantine Christian. Byzantines were appalled by their action.

2: There were no Turkish Muslims. Turkey was ruled by the Byzantines. It's the Arabs your talking about.

Yes there were. They were called Seljuk Turks and they invaded Asia Minor in 1071 AD. There weren't any Turks in Asia Minor prior to that. No i am not taking about the Arabs. Arab invasion had been repulsed from Asia Minor in 8th century by the byzantine defensive armies. Byzantine-Seljuk Turk conflict came later and they were main cause why the Crusade started.

3: Your contradicting your self. You say Turkey was Christians yet they were being invaded by Turks?

I didn't say Turkey was Christian. I was pointing out where Asia Minor was on the Atlas map(present day Turkey). What we know as Turkey was called Asia Minor or Anatolia by the Byzantine living there in the Middle ages.

As for the rest, you do have some a valid point. There were Greeks(Christian) living in western Turkey but they were ,,moved,, to Greece. There were also large Armenians(Christian) in eastern Turkey 1915 but we all know what happened to them them. http://www.unitedhumanrights.org/Genocide/armenian_genocide.htm
Yes i agree that the Koran do have any beautiful verses but there is also very negative verses too that contradicted the good verses. I have visited some sites about the Islam but finding natural sites can be challenging. This can also be said about Christian and Jewish sites to of course

 

[Plum]

^^^
You are not making much sense, imho. The Crusades are the point here? You don't seem to know it's history well. It was not about defending Constantinople or the Western Christian World, it was about looting Jerusalem and everything in between. Money. Always follow the money.

 

[StolenThunder]

Gettng a little off topic here..

 

[Plum]

Perhaps... but if you know your past, you may divine your future. Even if what is revealed is terrible.

 

[Stardate]

Stolen Thunder is right, this is going bit off topic but before i give this a rest i an going answer Plum commit because he accused me not knowing my history. This crusade debate started with those 2 comments

skep155 said:
Unlike Christianity with its meekness and supposed love for all regardless of whether they are your enemy, Islam is ruthless.
EliyahuQeoni said: And totally unlike the loving meekness of the Crusades...

Firstly. You are right that most wars are about money and power. However i was little pissed by EliyahuQeoni comments because Crusades has really noting to do with Christianity.
So I pointed out for him and now you Plum how the Crusade started at the first place. There were series of event that lead to the Crusade.
1. The Muslim presence in the Holy Land began with the initial Arab conquest of Palestine in the 7th century. This did not interfere much with pilgrimage to Christian holy sites.Western Europeans weren't that concerned with the loss of far-away Jerusalem. However, the Muslim armies' successes put increasing pressure on the Eastern Orthodox Byzantine Empire. Another factor that contributed to the change in Western attitudes towards the Muslim came in the year 1009, when the Fatimid Caliph ordered the Church of the Holy Sepulchre destroyed. In 1039 his successor permitted the Byzantine Empire to rebuild it. Pilgrimages were allowed to the Holy Lands before and after the Sepulchre was rebuilt, but for a time pilgrims were captured and some of the clergy were killed. The Muslim rulers eventually realized that the wealth of Jerusalem came from the pilgrims; with this realization the persecution of pilgrims stopped. However, the damage was already done, and the violence of the Seljuk Turks became part of the concern that spread the passion for the Crusades.
2.The immediate cause of the First Crusade was Byzantine emperor Alexius I appeal to Pope Urban II for mercenaries to help him resist Muslim advances into Asia Minor territory of the Byzantine Empire. In 1071, at the Battle of Manzikert, the Byzantine Empire was defeated, which led to the loss of all of Asia Minor (modern Turkey) save the coastlands. Alexius I hoped for a positive response from Urban II and got it, although it turned out to be more expansive and less helpful than he had expected.

So Crusade were actually design to help the Byzantines & Eastern Orthodox Christians against invading Seljuk Turks but it quickly turn into ugly conquest and looting of the Holy Land and Levant.

 

[Sephiroth]

norris-isim

 

[Sean Aaron]

misskim86 said:
Unless you eradicate a religion completely it will come back stronger just look at judaism

The reason the Jews endure is because we are not simply a religion, but a people. I'm a Jew whether I go to synagogue or not simply by birth.

With regard to Scott Hayden, his English may not be that good, but his history is correct. The Crusades were fought against the Seljuk Turks which were encroaching on Byzantium from their empire to the East in what was Persia.

 

[JM1776]

CaptainSpock said: Unless you eradicate a religion completely it will come back stronger...

I'm not sure the remaining Zoroastrians, members of what was once one of the world's most prevalent religions, would agree.

 

[starburst]

CaptainSpock said:
The reason the Jews endure is because we are not simply a religion, but a people. I'm a Jew whether I go to synagogue or not simply by birth.

Thats similar to how alot of Muslims think, I know this girl and her parents insist she is a British Muslim but as she doesnt share the Muslim faith she counts herself as a British Asian...its completly to point of view and theres only a few cultures out there like that, but I wouldnt be supprised if there were also some people with Jewish parents who considered themselves not Jewish.

 

[misskim86]

Well I've heard the same from other Jews but then I've heard the opposite view from yet some other jews so.. shrug.

 

[Stormrage]

starburst said:

CaptainSpock said:
The reason the Jews endure is because we are not simply a religion, but a people. I'm a Jew whether I go to synagogue or not simply by birth.

Thats similar to how alot of Muslims think, I know this girl and her parents insist she is a British Muslim but as she doesnt share the Muslim faith she counts herself as a British Asian...its completly to point of view and theres only a few cultures out there like that, but I wouldnt be supprised if there were also some people with Jewish parents who considered themselves not Jewish.

The Jewish one has more legs then the example you gave about the British Muslim. Islam is a religon not a ethnic group. Your only a muslim when your beleive and do what God says. Any other time (not including when your kid) your not a muslim.

 

[starburst]

I agree with you, although its a likely belief of many people that their faith is their culture such as the example I outlined

Whats being a kid got to do with it?

 

[Stormrage]

starburst said:
I agree with you, although its a likely belief of many people that their faith is their culture such as the example I outlined

Whats being a kid got to do with it?

Religon does affect your culture. Immensely especially Islam with all the rules of what you can and can't do. But at the end of the day culture can also be substitutedas religon like a lot of Asian muslims do.

Oh and the kid part. Most kids aren't real believers since they are to young to think for themselves.

 

[alicelouise]

There's "Ender's Game" as well. The Character, Ender, can be likened to futuristic Harry Potter.

 

[Kegek]

JM1776 said:

CaptainSpock said: Unless you eradicate a religion completely it will come back stronger...

I'm not sure the remaining Zoroastrians, members of what was once one of the world's most prevalent religions, would agree.

Zoroastrians discourage conversion. For that matter, it's debateable whether you can be Zoroastrian if you only have one Zoroastrian parent.

With that in mind it's kind of hard for them to make any kind of a comeback.

 

[JM1776]

Kegek said: Zoroastrians discourage conversion. For that matter, it's debateable whether you can be Zoroastrian if you only have one Zoroastrian parent.

We're straying too far off-topic, and so I'll PM my response.

Suffice it to say that the differences between historical and contemporary Zoroastrianism speak directly to this point.