Which NuTrek Movie Do You Think is the Best?

[BillJ]

And yet alot more so than the film it, and I quote, "ripped off" for all of six or seven minutes.

This. The plot for The Wrath of Khan was littered with problems. But Shatner and Montalban chew enough scenery to make it fun. The plot for Into Darkness was admittedly shaky, but the cast make it very entertaining. Especially the scene where Khan pops Marcus' head like a three day old pimple. The look on Pine's face totally sells the scene.

 

[Kemaiku]

Highly trained Starfleet crew misses an entire planet missing and a MASSIVE gravitational anomaly, and whatever caused it, leaving tears in space.

Highly trained Starfleet crew somehow allows Khan to take a Federation starship, biofilter on transporter misses BRAIN EATING PARASITES wrapped around their brains and doesn't register super humans.

Highly trained Starfleet crew does not raise shields when another Federation starship nearly rams them and does not open communications or activate external emergency beacon transponder for issues.

Starfleet Council allocates major resources and a Starbase to a civilian research group claiming the power of creation without having *any* independent research group investigate Genesis, even have the Vulcan Science Committee or whatever to look it over if Carol didn't want Starfleet to see it.

And she used Starfleet resources and a Starbase to make something despite her objections? She didn't know David was using Protomatter? NO-ONE ever actually looked into what David was doing? ever? how fucking reckless was that!? Jesus.

I could go on but you know, that's enough for now.

 

[BillJ]

I could go on but you know, that's enough for now.

The fact that the Federation is playing with the power of creation and doesn't have ample security in the area. So much so, they have to send a ship full of cadets to investigate.

 

[Kemaiku]

That too, how Carol somehow bullied Starfleet into driving it's own personnel off Regula One and not leaving even one independent advisor or even S31 operative is bullshit.

How do we know? anyone in S31 would have gone Liam Neeson on Khan and his groups assess when he beamed aboard.

 

[Longinus]

The problem with STID is that neither Khan's or Marcus' plan makes any sense.

 

[Kemaiku]

Bullfuckingshit.

Marcus is a full on xenophobe that got himself where he needed to be to start a pre-emptive war with the Klingons came terribly close to success. His mistake was underestimating Khan, whose loyalty to his men proved too strong to yield to Marcus, knowing it may even cost all their lives.

You weren't paying attention, or are being deliberately provocative, obtuse, or doing this just to cause an argument for your own sake. Knock it the fuck off.

 

[BillJ]

The problem with STID is that neither Khan's or Marcus' plan makes any sense.

Khan tries to hide his comrades in torpedoes. Marcus finds out. Sends the torpedoes to be fired at the Klingons who he wants war with. I didn't have any real problem following it. Could it have been cleaner and more streamlined (the writing), yeah, probably. But the cast takes the material they are given and knocks it out of the park. Which happens far more often in all versions of Trek than some folks want to admit.

 

[Kemaiku]

STID got hit by one of the writer strikes a few years back, and it still held up better than the 10 Primeverse movies for plot. That should say something.

 

[M'Sharak]

...

You weren't paying attention, or are being deliberately provocative, obtuse, or doing this just to cause an argument for your own sake. Knock it the fuck off.

That's out of line. Dial it back to "civil," please.

 

[Longinus]

Ok, lets assume that Khan was somehow capable of securing all the cryopods and putting them into the torpedoes, without anyone noticing (this is ludicrous in itself.) But why to do it? What was the plan here. Why not free them and use the supertansporter to escape? And why he beamed to Qo'noS anyway? Did Marcus notice that the augments were in the torpedoes and if he did, why he gave them to Kirk? Why he expected Kirk to carry out this bizarre order that would obviously start a war with the Klingons? Why would Starfleet command ever approve such a mission? And if Marcus' wanted to start a war, why not just use the supertransporter to secretly beam bombs to Qo'noS? An why did McCoy not use blood from one of the other augments to revive Kirk?

 

[The Wormhole]

She didn't know David was using Protomatter? NO-ONE ever actually looked into what David was doing? ever? how fucking reckless was that!?

The protomatter was revealed in Trek III and should therefore not be included in a list of TWOK's flaws.

 

[fireproof78]

Ok, lets assume that Khan was somehow capable of securing all the cryopods and putting them into the torpedoes, without anyone noticing (this is ludicrous in itself.) But why to do it? What was the plan here. Why not free them and use the supertansporter to escape? And why he beamed to Qo'noS anyway? Did Marcus notice that the augments were in the torpedoes and if he did, why he gave them to Kirk? Why he expected Kirk to carry out this bizarre order that would obviously start a war with the Klingons? Why would Starfleet command ever approve such a mission? And if Marcus' wanted to start a war, why not just use the supertransporter to secretly beam bombs to Qo'noS? An why did McCoy not use blood from one of the other augments to revive Kirk?

This is purely my own person feelings and/or explanations while watching the film. Marcus' originally planned to use the Vengeance to fire the torpedoes, with Khan acting as a supervisor of the torpedoes launch, since they were his design. Khan intended to smuggle his people out in the torpedoes when the Vengeance went on its mission by subduing the crew of the Vengeance and commandeering it. When Marcu's discovered the Augments in the torpedoes, he threatened to kill them if Khan didn't cooperate. Khan discovered Harewood and decided to use him to force his hand, thinking Marcus needed him to complete the mission. When Marcus went forward with it anyway, Khan attacked the meeting, forcing Marcus to use the Vengeance to complete the mission.leaving it open to Khan's use.

For Marcus' part, he was trying to bury the evidence by launching all the torpedoes at Khan, killing Khan and the Augments and burying the information on Qo'NoS. The Enterprise was then to be destroyed by Klingons for firing in to their space, and Marcus' would declare war for the attack.

Marcus' plan didn't need to count on a captain following the orders or Starfleet Command approving it. He could have ordered any ship to patrol the Neutral Zone, loaded up the torpedoes and an S31 operative on the ship and have them fired, and disabled the engines, allowing the ship to be destroyed.

Just one man's observations.

 

[Kemaiku]

The protomatter was revealed in Trek III.

But it still happened, made by the same people and picking up right after TWoK, so we must reconcile it with that film. Genesis sounds insane enough to begin with, giving civilians total control of military hardware with no supervision to create something that could be made a superweapon five minutes later.

 

[DarKush]

I liked Star Trek '09 more. I went to watch it again with enthusiasm. When I watched Star Trek Into Darkness again, I did it to see if what I saw the first time had actually happened.

Trek '09 wasn't perfect, but it was very entertaining. I thought the new actors channeled the original actors fairly well, particularly Pine, Quinto, and Urban. Greenwood was great as Pike as well. The action was big and I liked the large scope of the film. Nero was a drab villain, despite having a great opening. Overall though it was a rousing, entertaining film that made Trek cool again for the mass audience.

In contrast, Into Darkness felt like a retreat. I had to watch it again to see that it actually did have a theme, that it was about something (post-9/11 politics). But creatively it felt like a regression. I didn't like the inclusion of Khan and I didn't like whitewashing Khan. I felt the crew was more immature than they should have been. I didn't like them taking scenes from The Wrath of Khan. The action was still good, the acting wasn't bad. Cumberbatch and Weller made for better villains than Bana in the acting department. To me, it felt like Into Darkness was a cliff notes version of Trek: Khan, Klingons, etc. and it felt like both, and Leonard Nimoy's Spock cameo was shoehorned in (though admittedly how original Spock showing up on Delta Vega in '09 Trek was way too convenient).

 

[The Wormhole]

But it still happened, made by the same people and picking up right after TWoK, so we must reconcile it with that film.

Doesn't matter. It was from TSFS, it belongs on a list of complaints about TSFS, not TWOK.

 

[Kemaiku]

Doesn't matter. It was from TSFS, it belongs on a list of complaints about TSFS, not TWOK.

The Genesis Trilogy work as a 3 film set.

 

[BillJ]

The same folks that made The Wrath of Khan, followed it up by making Carol Marcus look completely incompetent in hindsight.

 

[eyeresist]

Khan tries to hide his comrades in torpedoes. Marcus finds out. Sends the torpedoes to be fired at the Klingons who he wants war with.

Marcus wouldn't let Khan anywhere near his comrades, and with good reason. Marcus put the augments in the torpedos. He doesn't want any more supermen running around, and blowing them up on Kronos is as good a way as any to dispose of them. Maybe Marcus (while grinning ironically) told Khan that he would be reunited with his comrades once he had done his job and gone to Kronos.

 

[Longinus]

Marcus wouldn't let Khan anywhere near his comrades, and with good reason. Marcus put the augments in the torpedos. He doesn't want any more supermen running around, and blowing them up on Kronos is as good a way as any to dispose of them. Maybe Marcus (while grinning ironically) told Khan that he would be reunited with his comrades once he had done his job and gone to Kronos.

No, Khan says he put the people in the torpedoes. Whether Marcus knew this, I don't know. It makes little sense either way. And apparently the torpedoes still somehow work, even though 90% their insides are replaced with frozen people.

 

[BillJ]

And apparently the torpedoes still somehow work, even though 90% their insides are replaced with frozen people.

I imagine they used smaller explosives with a smaller yield. But, they replaced Khan's people with explosives before beaming the torpedoes to the Vengeance.