That isn't ridiculous at all.
Which is your best Trek film and why?
- Thread starter Nyotarules
- Start date
Crisis Point: The raise of Vindicta
The greatest is probably either tWoK or tUC. And I love them both. But my favories are tSfS and tVH.
First Contact is the best TNG film and my favorite. Ditto Beyond for the Kelvins.
First Contact is the best TNG film and my favorite. Ditto Beyond for the Kelvins.
TWOK. Riveting. Still packs an emotional punch.
I'm glad I got to see it in theaters at special screenings in 2010 and 2017.
I'm glad I got to see it in theaters at special screenings in 2010 and 2017.
TOS: The Voyage Home. It was just goofy fun that didn't take itself too seriously, and gave all the characters something interesting to do.
TNG: First Contact. It made the Borg scary again, and it had lots of good callbacks to the series: the holodeck, Worf's cutlery. It even showed DS9 and VOY some love.
TNG: First Contact. It made the Borg scary again, and it had lots of good callbacks to the series: the holodeck, Worf's cutlery. It even showed DS9 and VOY some love.
I don’t really love any of them. Kirk is too out of character and then the TNG ones are like mediocre to bad episodes but a bit longer. My most rewatched film by far is 2009 but I always skip a good chunk of scenes that I don’t like. Kirk is way out of character again but it’s not so jarring with Pine instead of Shatner. I don’t care for the other two much.
That makes for an interesting thread in of itself; are there any of the movies where Kirk feels more Kirk-like and not out of character? 15+ years on, there could be some personal changes going on. But and IMHO:
TMP: 5 years after TOS, something about Kirk does feel off. Can't quite pinpoint it and it's not due to obsession with the ship. Given Kirk's knowledge and micromanagement, would he be this quick to take command? The script does try to address this, but it still doesn't feel quite right.
TWOK: 15 years after TOS. Older, wiser, middle-aged, took McCoy's advice in getting command instead of adding to his collection with himself, but he'd let his guard down because he wouldn't listen to book-smart Saavik quoting regulations, which is more tangible proof as to why good ship captains have parrots perched on their shoulders while diaper-clad because untrained parrots can make a mess. He still wins out in the end, mostly thanks to Spock offing himself in the process. It's heavy stuff but well-told due to good script rewrites. He really does feel more like Kirk here and the passage of time, I think, gives some bonus points. Some people can change radically over time, not so much for others. It feels more believable here, even if he went from making speeches about "risk is our business" to "I reprogrammed the simulator to end run the rules".
TSFS: On the coattails of TWOK, this one truly is an undiscovered country for sure. Kirk never had to face big big odds until now, and does so solely for his best friend. This and TWOK, IMHO, did worldbuilding in some epic ways and two fleets of massive starships constantly shooting at each other wasn't required.
TVH: Everyone's just a comedy act for the bulk of the thing, so - no - he's not Kirk.
TFF: A little too cartoony at times, partly because TVH ensured that a comedy routine would be inevitable, but yet the philosophical elements in the movie and for Kirk, outside of fluff lines like "Hiya Bones, am I late for dinner!!" stuff, feels very Kirk-like. Kirk of TOS really would ask what anybody needed with a starship. Kirk of TOS would do a brazen hostage rescue if need be.
TUC: n years since TFF. The movie seems to be a little forced with the racist elements drags down points. Like pounding a square peg into a slightly smaller round hole, Kirk is a bit off at times, but not as bad as TMP. He's also more unsure of himself in ways than in TWOK as, this time, the uncertainty is the largest he's ever faced. That said, too many times in TOS (esp. later in TOS, and brownie points for TSFS) has Kirk shown tolerance and grace that defy his antics in this one. The movie tries to pass it all simply via "never forgive them for the death of my boy", but is it really as simple as one incident? Did all of his dealings all weigh on him so much, or is it really nothing more than the movie changing character motivations to suit the plot?
GEN: Kirk likes horses while retiring in the mountains now, directly countering what Bones told him n years earlier about keeping command and it's his first best destiny and all that? Um, okay... That aside, the crew did stand down in TUC, and the continuity of dying alone definitely comes into place and there's otherwise a philosophical bent with Kirk ruminating, which was missed. Especially as he was alone in a different time and knew nobody. Picard seems his usual self, which is about as much Picardy as he'd ever be in the four Picard films.
FC: Jean-Luc McClane is now punching, kicking, gunslinging, wisecracking, swinging on cables and doing all but a Tarzen yell, which surprisingly wouldn't have been out of place given the crass comedy also in the script.
INS: Picard starts out okay, if not in an early season-1 way that nobody would have bought into in 1987 either, but still. Unfortunately, he switches back into McClane-mode soon enough, complete with Collector Array that had me wondering in the theater why a self-destruct button is now an assembly-line feature put into everything Star Trekky. Plus even more wisecracking, complete with 4th wall break about how he's getting too old to be actionflicking it up. Even Kirk in "Beyond" had a better reason to do the mopey middle-aged stereotype thing and Kirk's like 40 in that one, good grief... and, yes, we all preferred it back when the crew were explorers, and not because most of season 1 was better than this outing.
NEM: There's an attempt in there somewhere to make Picard proper Picard again, but the TNG movies' reliance on comedy acts for a whiz-bang golly good time ended up diluting the franchise and this tonal whiplash went too much the other way. Plus, he's dune buggying and other things you'd see McClane do if they did a "Die Hard: Die Dunebuggying Die", though that would confuse translators as "Die Hard: The Dunebuggying The" sounds incredibly weird.
One of Uhura's finest moments, taking command of more than just the communications section, but far more. Definitely a top-tier moment for any character. Wish we had more of that.
With the advent of affordable, and some even high quality, 90" 4K screens making use of UHD, TMP would never look better. Or even a 65" set and plonk the chair and heiney upon it 6.5' from the set instead of 9', it's all good.
The first one did do it the best, which paved the way for TSFS and TVH escaping the "baddie needs revenge against someone" cliché. The 80s Kirk movies were best as a continuing saga: Each self-contained but with a loose hook into the next installment, thus allowing for plotting other than "I am Korvid the Cow, and I want revenge on Earth and Starfleet and that speck of dust on Mars and a moldy chocolate bar because Kirk milked the farm 20 years ago, moohahaha!". The NextGen movies always felt... aimless reunion parties more than actual epic events. They were fun, yes, but something always felt a bit off.
That IS an excellent scene. Loved Alfre Woodard's acting and really points out Picard's own obsession.
I don't know how a planet can simply explode and I can't entertain "the evil admiral did it" being a reason, but the challenges that were created by the neighboring planet, Ceti Alpha VI, exploding were as completely unexpected as they were unexplained. Spock in "Space Seed" did rhetorically ask "If we look back _ years, the blahblah from the seed we planted" or whatever, but Spock or Kirk never did follow up. Would it be their responsibility to do so, the logs contained all the info and it is up to Starfleet to decide when or if to check up on things. Okay, maybe "the evil admiral did it". Or the planet exploding was just an accident and Starfleet didn't know or care. Just a lucky coincidence that Reliant was looking for a lifeless planet.
Khan was familiar with the OG Enterprise. Refit Enterprise, Reliant, and other newer ships would be variations on an old theme but controls altered*. He had stranded Reliant's crew and there were no manuals for his buddies to read up on -- that's definitely where the stupidity is, since keeping Chekov or Terell could have allowed a too-easy victory.
* Real-life fun-time example: if you're familiar with Windows 10 or 11 operating system on your computer, look up Windows 3.1 and DOS 6.22. Reformat the hard drive and install these two older systems on your computer. Assuming it boots up, there will be a ton of differences in exploring the system, control panel, et cetera. Maybe Windows 7 instead since it's more likely going to be compatible on the same computer than creaky old DOS...
Yup. The best repeat-worthy story is multifaceted with ideas and content. The visceral ones aren't as rewatchable or require more time between viewings for it to still have an effect. "KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!" is so iconic (and corny!) that it's the one scene in the film that doesn't hold up anymore at all.
That helps!
Good idea! I will make that now. Feel free to copy your answer over to there too.
I was very disappointed in 'Generations' but do not think it was awful. Like others have said it was more like a really long episode but not as good. I also do not like how over the top Brents performance was when Data was given the emotion chip by Geordi. Usually love his acting. Maybe he was so used to playing Data emotionless? Then Data being turned into a coward. Granted Data was new to emotions, but it left a bit a sour taste in my mouth and Picard's treatment of Data.
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