Which Captain retreated the most?

[Ragitsu]

Good morning.

Here is a fairly straightforward question: of the TOS to ENT Captains, who - above the rest - tended to play it safe by engaging in "tactical withdrawals"?, Yes, there is something of a difference between a "retreat" and the wordier "tactical withdrawal", but I am essentially wondering which Captain was the most cautious.

 

[BillJ]

Iunno? Never really cared. Plus the unequal number of episodes from show-to-show makes situations even harder to compare.

I’d guess Archer, because he was largely outgunned in the 22nd century.

 

[XCV330]

Good question. If we count the opening of every season of LD as a separate canon instance, Captain Freeman. Nobody nopes away from battle like Freeman. Actually now I think of it, I don't think she actually retreated in episodes. Archer definately retreated a few times.

 

[BillJ]

Also, are we talking about complete withdrawal from a situation or are we talking about backing off to analyze the situation and then reengaging?

 

[XCV330]

Also, are we talking about complete withdrawal from a situation or are we talking about backing off to analyze the situation and then reengaging?

If so, the Sisko's giving up an entire space station is definitely a big one.

 

[Sketcher]

Kirk. What a coward.

 

[FederationHistorian]

I think it's Sisko, followed by Picard and Pike.

Archer and Janeway don't do a lot of retreating. And Kirk retreated only once.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I believe it was Captain Brave Sir Robin the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot.

 

[Vger23]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Roundabout]

If so, the Sisko's giving up an entire space station is definitely a big one.

Yes, that was a major retreat. But Sisko did return to DS9.

One of the things that I found memorable about Sisko's retreat was the stirring departing speech that he gave to those DS9 folks who were staying behind. Star Trek captains are adept at speechifying.

The line in his speech, "And I promise, I will not rest until I stand with you again ... here ... in this place where I belong" was reminiscent of General Douglas MacArthur's, "I shall return" declaration, after MacArthur retreated from the Philippines during WW2.

According to Ron Moore, the writer(s) who wrote Sisko's speech were "definitely inspired by it in concept".

But, unlike the fictional Sisko retreat, where all Starfleet personnel and their families, except for Jake, successfully withdrew from DS9, only a very small number of MacArthur's people got out of the Philippines with him. The rest of the soldiers under MacArthur's command could not escape, and they were forced to surrender to the Japanese. And those men were treated brutally while in captivity.

Of course, MacArthur, like Sisko, did return triumphantly. He led Allied forces in retaking the islands from Japanese control. That's my boring history lesson of the day.

Kirk. What a coward.

Was Kirk a coward?

(image from Trekcore)

Well, in this scene in "Spectre of the Gun", Kirk knowingly walked into a lion's den, and he wound up sheepishly putting his hands up.

Kirk refused to draw his gun when challenged. Kirk retreated from a potential gun fight with Wyatt Earp. Was he being wise or cowardly?

This is what Morgan Earp had to say about Kirk, aka Clanton, "I always said you was yellow". And Morgan wasn't referring to the color of Kirk's shirt.

 

[XCV330]

Of course, MacArthur, like Sisko, did return triumphantly. He led Allied forces in retaking the islands from Japanese control. That's my boring history lesson of the day.

I had a great uncle who had gone in ahead of the return to the Phillipines and try to work with local leaders to further and assist the resistance. I was pretty young when I met him so I was never clear on the details. It had to be after 42 and probably more like 44. I wish I had known what questions to ask him at the time, because he died not long after and I never got to meet him again.

When I met him he owned a heavy machinery company, and his house was this underground thing dug into the side of a canyon in Utah, as I recall. He had this really weird sword/ax thing which in retrospect was a panabas, among other odd relics in his home.

I asked him about the sword and he said that while he was making contacts, one local king (his words) had taken a liking to him and offered him a daughter to marry. He saw she chewed betel and he couldn't really get around her black teeth so he diplomatically arranged to get the sword instead. Anyway, not related to this read. Just a memory.

 

[Roundabout]

^ Thanks for sharing that.

It is a privilege to hear a vet share his experiences. Oftentimes, real life experiences are more interesting or weirder than fiction.

 

[Farscape One]

If so, the Sisko's giving up an entire space station is definitely a big one.

It should be noted that there is a real possibility Sisko was ordered to leave. Note he already had the program to sabotage the station all ready to go long before the battle occured. That battle also allowed the Federation/Klingon fleet to destroy a Dominion shipyard. Once the last mine was in place and the field was activated, the wormhole was more or less secure for the medium term.

Also, his leaving his baseball, I think, was not just telling Dukat he'll be back, but that the evacuation was part of the plan.

 

[Frontis]

I think none of them retreated, otherwise they wouldn't be Star Trek captains

 

[F. King Daniel]

I read "which captain retweeted the most" and opened this thread sleepy and confused

 

[Nyotarules]

I think none of them retreated, otherwise they wouldn't be Star Trek captains

Smart Star Trek captains know when to retreat

 

[Ragitsu]

DALBY: I was in command. Put the blame on me. The crew was just following my orders.
TUVOK: And have you reached a conclusion as to your error?
DALBY: I thought I did everything I could. We were just out-gunned.
TUVOK: I see. Did the possibility of retreat not occur to you?
HENLEY: Retreat?
DALBY: I can't believe you'd say that.
TUVOK: The strongest tactical move is always the one in which you will reap the highest gain at the lowest cost. Going out with phasers firing may seem heroic, but in the long run it is merely foolish. Retreat is often the best possible option.

 

[Ragitsu]

Easily given; easily taken away.

 

[Citiprime]

I would be curious about the opposite.

Which captain was the most reckless and willing to put themselves and their crew in harm's way when they arguably shouldn't have?

Here's a hot take: An argument can be made for Janeway. Not sure I agree with it, but starting with season 1 episode 1, I've seen people question whether or not the entire reason for Voyager being stranded in the Delta Quadrant was necessary and she should have tried to hold the array for as long as necessary to try getting the ship back home. Her decision to intervene in denying the Caretaker's Array to the Kazon was a decision you can slice apart, since is it really Starfleet's responsibility to determine what happens in that situation? They're not supposed to be there in the first place and the Caretaker's influence over the Ocampa was already an artificial interference on their society to begin with that was going to collapse whether Starfleet did anything or not.

Is it worth stranding your crew 70,000 light-years from home just to decide what was the moral option in a situation Starfleet had nothing to do with creating?

It should be noted that there is a real possibility Sisko was ordered to leave. Note he already had the program to sabotage the station all ready to go long before the battle occured. That battle also allowed the Federation/Klingon fleet to destroy a Dominion shipyard. Once the last mine was in place and the field was activated, the wormhole was more or less secure for the medium term.

Also, his leaving his baseball, I think, was not just telling Dukat he'll be back, but that the evacuation was part of the plan.

I always took it as a planned withdrawal he cleared with Starfleet before the battle in "Call to Arms." Kira is taken aback when he tells everyone there's not going to be any reinforcements sent to Deep Space Nine, saying they'll be "busy" with something else.

So I always believed the plan from the start was to hold DS9, deploy the minefield, and keep the Dominion fleet busy so the Federation-Klingon task force could hit the Dominion shipyards.

 

[Farscape One]

I would be curious about the opposite.

Which captain was the most reckless and willing to put themselves and their crew in harm's way when they arguably shouldn't have?

Here's a hot take: An argument can be made for Janeway. Not sure I agree with it, but starting with season 1 episode 1, I've seen people question whether or not the entire reason for Voyager being stranded in the Delta Quadrant was necessary and she should have tried to hold the array for as long as necessary to try getting the ship back home. Her decision to intervene in denying the Caretaker's Array to the Kazon was a decision you can slice apart, since is it really Starfleet's responsibility to determine what happens in that situation? They're not supposed to be there in the first place and the Caretaker's influence over the Ocampa was already an artificial interference on their society to begin with that was going to collapse whether Starfleet did anything or not.

Is it worth stranding your crew 70,000 light-years from home just to decide what was the moral option in a situation Starfleet had nothing to do with creating?

I always took it as a planned withdrawal he cleared with Starfleet before the battle in "Call to Arms." Kira is taken aback when he tells everyone there's not going to be any reinforcements sent to Deep Space Nine, saying they'll be "busy" with something else.

So I always believed the plan from the start was to hold DS9, deploy the minefield, and keep the Dominion fleet busy so the Federation-Klingon task force could hit the Dominion shipyards.

I'd have to agree that Janeway was the most reckless. And not just because of "CARETAKER". There have been quite a few times when she was reckless with her crew. Some examples:


"SCORPION" - trying to make a deal with the Borg. (I give her credit for having the balls to even entertain that idea, but it was monumentally stupid and reckless.)

"WARHEAD" - keeping the unstable bomb aboard instead of either destroying it or returning it to the planet's surface with warning buoys in orbit. (And also just having ANY unknown device brought aboard and put right next to the warp core.)

"VIRTUOSO" - allowing The Doctor, the ONLY doctor aboard, to leave permanently. So Tom Paris is going to handle the next disease that gets aboard? Along with all the crew's medical needs? (This was a failure on Janeway from the start... not having The Doctor train more than just Kes on medicine. At least Chakotay understood the need to have multiple doctors aboard in his captaincy during "BEFORE AND AFTER".)

"SPIRIT FOLK" - Tom and Harry captured and put in real danger by the Fair Haven holograms, and instead of just shutting off the holodeck, she sends in The Doctor.