Where Are You? (and other physics)

[Australis]

I'll make this quick as I'm quite tired right now, and elaborate more as needed.

Physics tells us, as is endlessly debated in the TrekXI subforum, that there are parallel universes. RL physics suggest that there is matter in this universe unaccounted for, and that it may possibly be moving back and forth between universes. That solid chair you're sitting on, is actually swapping atoms and particles in and out even as tyou read this.

So, if that's happening to chairs, tables, the PC you're reading this on... won't it be happening to us? Our atoms shifting back and forth between another version of ourselves?

This intrigues me. Maybe this is partially where dreams come from, or desires, or fears we can find no basis for, because, after all, a thought is even less physically substantial than an atom.

This also led me to a fun mental game, where all of us here are swapping atoms in and out, but not into the same universe. We are a crossroads for a hundred parallel universes, and meanwhile J Allens's atoms are swapping between here and the one where he is the Evil Overlord of All Earth, where Locutus of Bored is a bank robber on the run, where chardman is a Mafia hitman, where noknowes is a renowned physicist (okay, a stretch), and even one where I'm really happy with my life.

So what do you think? Answers can be serious or silly, but I'd like some input on current thinking of PUs, which I'm sadly lacking in.

 

[Arrqh]

Physics tells us, as is endlessly debated in the TrekXI subforum, that there are parallel universes.

Not exactly.

There is an interpretation of quantum mechanics called the many-worlds interpretation. This is where the idea of parallel universes comes from, that for every potential quantum event there is a universe that exists with that outcome. There are, however, many interpretations of quantum mechanics that do not use this concept. So no, physics does not tell us that there are parallel universes. Some people, though, think there may be.

 

[Australis]

^ But maybe, in a parallel universe, you think otherwise...

 

[Arrqh]

If consciousness is a quantum process, perhaps

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

It's sort of comforting to think that for all the screwups or bad choices that you make in your life, there may be another version of you that didn't. Or perhaps this really is the best of all possible worlds.

 

[Australis]

If consciousness is a quantum process, perhaps

Which is a good point. We know electrons move around and stuff, but we don't know exactly what thought is or where it comes from. What if it's dragged across these dimensions that might be no wider than an atom away?

And then the possibility that you and I are 'flipping', for want of a netter word, between entirely different parallel worlds while we converse here... fascinating.

Of course, it's dependant on the idea that I saw in that doco, which I'd like to hear a little more explanation on, that atoms are flipping between PUs. How 'firm' is this theory? What other theories are there regarding PUs?

 

[SilentP]

So, if that's happening to chairs, tables, the PC you're reading this on... won't it be happening to us? Our atoms shifting back and forth between another version of ourselves?

This intrigues me. Maybe this is partially where dreams come from, or desires, or fears we can find no basis for, because, after all, a thought is even less physically substantial than an atom.

Maybe this is why people have bad memories, their memory cells are travelling across the universe

 

[Silvercrest]

It would also explain why my keys aren't where I left them.

 

[SonicRanger]

Physics tells us, as is endlessly debated in the TrekXI subforum, that there are parallel universes.

Not exactly.

There is an interpretation of quantum mechanics called the many-worlds interpretation. This is where the idea of parallel universes comes from, that for every potential quantum event there is a universe that exists with that outcome. There are, however, many interpretations of quantum mechanics that do not use this concept. So no, physics does not tell us that there are parallel universes. Some people, though, think there may be.

Thank you. I hate this "physics tells us..." nonsense.

 

[Arrqh]

Of course, it's dependant on the idea that I saw in that doco, which I'd like to hear a little more explanation on, that atoms are flipping between PUs. How 'firm' is this theory? What other theories are there regarding PUs?

Can't say I've ever heard of that idea before, certainly not in regards to dark matter as you seemed to be implying in your first post. I don't see how that's compatible at all with the many-worlds interpretation. What documentary did you see that on?

 

[TIN_MAN]

This actually has to do with antimater which is 'out of phase' as it were, with our universe's matter, constantly exchanging identities as mini black holes and white holes (Dirac sea holes). Do an search engine for Col. Tom Beardon for a well reasoned take on the math and physics of it all. Also the book 'Bridging Science and Spirit' by Norman Friedman has some good food for thought about the possible insights of certain 'channeled' sources on the subject, including how this relates to dreams and such.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Physics tells us, as is endlessly debated in the TrekXI subforum, that there are parallel universes.

Actually, not really. If you are talking about the many-world interpretation, it's just that, an interpretation of quantum mechanics. Personally, I don't like this kind of interpretations about quantum mechanics very much: to me, they are just way to "anthropize" (is that a word?) something that is so far away from our usual understanding of the word that it's actually only knowledgeable from a mathematical point of view. We try to twist and squeeze this interpretations to fit the actual theory, but they never really fit, because we don't want to admit that, at the quantum level, reality is just so fucking weird that it's impossible to interpret it with our mind, which evolved in a completely different scale.

RL physics suggest that there is matter in this universe unaccounted for

I suppose you are talking about dark matter, but I'm not sure where are you trying to go with that.

and that it may possibly be moving back and forth between universes.

Personally, I've never heard of that.

Maybe this is partially where dreams come from, or desires, or fears we can find no basis for, because, after all, a thought is even less physically substantial than an atom.

I tend to think that thoughts, dream, desires and fears are just byproducts of the way our brain try to interpret reality, using and thus are consequences of our biology and evolution.

 

[TheGodBen]

It's sort of comforting to think that for all the screwups or bad choices that you make in your life, there may be another version of you that didn't. Or perhaps this really is the best of all possible worlds.

Not for me it isn't. I don't see why there should be a lucky bastard out there who is exactly like me but he gets to live a great life because he was lucky enough to live in the universe where he made the right decisions yet I'm stuck here in this crappy universe. Why should I feel happy for my doppelgänger? I know him and he wouldn't be happy for me if the situation were reversed!

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

It's sort of comforting to think that for all the screwups or bad choices that you make in your life, there may be another version of you that didn't. Or perhaps this really is the best of all possible worlds.

Not for me it isn't. I don't see why there should be a lucky bastard out there who is exactly like me but he gets to live a great life because he was lucky enough to live in the universe where he made the right decisions yet I'm stuck here in this crappy universe. Why should I feel happy for my doppelgänger? I know him and he wouldn't be happy for me if the situation were reversed!

I'm guessing you're the "glass half empty" type.

 

[TheGodBen]

I'm actually something of a relentless optimist, but that optimism is based on the understanding that I am the pinnacle of Bendom; I may not be perfect but I am the best I shall ever be. But now people are saying that there are other universes where I exist except I'm living a perfect life, so I'm no longer living the best life I could ever have, some other bastard is. And there's millions of the git!

 

[Candlelight]

Might explain where Jayson disappears to every now and then.

 

[Arrqh]

I'm actually something of a relentless optimist, but that optimism is based on the understanding that I am the pinnacle of Bendom; I may not be perfect but I am the best I shall ever be. But now people are saying that there are other universes where I exist except I'm living a perfect life, so I'm no longer living the best life I could ever have, some other bastard is. And there's millions of the git!

That's okay, there's millions of them that are worse off too!

Anyway, it's time for some Pratchett.

 

[Australis]

Love Pratchett. Saw him on the news, item about Alzheimer's and coffee acting against it, where he said if that's the case, he's going to be pouring the stuff down his neck.

AH! Found the doco on YouTube, rewatching it now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_vpEyE6rug

EDT: just watched it again. MY brain hurts. But I think they said what I said in the OP

 

[FlyingLemons]

Of course, it's dependant on the idea that I saw in that doco, which I'd like to hear a little more explanation on, that atoms are flipping between PUs. How 'firm' is this theory?

Atoms flipping between parallel universes? Was it a documentary about Hugh Everett's theory of multiple worlds you're talking about?

What other theories are there regarding PUs?

Well, aside from the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, there's the idea from string theory that we live in a "landscape" of universes, around 10^500 of them. There isn't much proof of this idea yet, and it could turn out that it's wrong.

Another one is that we live in a universe that was spawned out of a process called "eternal inflation" from the big bang. Essentially this means that the creation of universes has been going on forever, and that again, ours is only one of many. Some think we might be able to see proof of this theory in measurements of the cosmic microwave background, which may show signs of an early collision with another universe. Again, extremely speculative.

The best attitude to take with the whole parallel universe thing is just to accept that it's all extremely speculative: we have a long way to go before we even come close to cracking the problem.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Based on the (admittedly limited) reading I've done, so far I subscribe to the "One Iota" theory:

There is one tiny Iota of stuff - "matter", "energy", or whatever - that exists at all of the different probability levels all at once, and that very same Iota is being each of the photons involved in your reading this right now, and each of the electrons powering my laptop as I type this, and each of the neutrons in an atom of carbon in Jessica Alba's right buttcheek, and every proton involved in the nuclear fusion of a star a million years ago and a billion light years away. Or anything else you could name. The same Iota, just with different probability levels determining it's location in time, space, and what state of matter or energy it manifests as.

If there are parallel universes, they are still just that same Iota, at yet more sets of probability levels.

I find there to be something very Zen, and also something kinda depressing about this idea. But aside from that, it also seems to me - both scientifically and spiritually - to be true.