Where are O'Brien's pips?

[Too Much Fun]

I was watching DS9 and noticed that O'Brien doesn't seem to have the rank buttons (or "pips") on his uniform like everyone else has. Instead, I see some other pattern on his collar. Does anyone know why that is?

I also noticed that my "Star Trek: First Contact" Data action figure has a yellow pip that blends into the yellow collar under the black/gray jacket, and wondered if O'Brien's uniform was altered because of the same problem.

After all, the pips don't seem to effectively denote rank when they're camoflauged by the colour of the uniform they're attached to! Nog has pips, though, so there might be some other explanation.

 

[Captrek]

It’s because he’s enlisted.

 

[mattyhugh]

The Section entitled "Problematic Rank History" should as well.

 

[RyuRoots]

All throughout TNG, they didn't know what to do with O'Brien for rank. He had a single pip, then two for Lt, then back to single for an NCO later, IIRC. Wasn't 'til DS9 where they finally hammered out an identifiable ranking display for enlisted officers (read: O'Brien) in that patch whilst the men and women who graduated the academy had pips.

 

[Too Much Fun]

Wow, thanks for clearing that up, folks. I had no idea the explanation could be so complicated!

 

[RyuRoots]

Glad to help. And take a look at the patch itself

I remember seeing somewhere before that one to three straight diagonal lines meant crewman (first, second and third class). And assuming I remember this correctly, the lines here represent petty officer specialist first second and third class, and the dots represent chief petty officer, senior chief petty officer (O'Brien's rank) and master chief petty officer (if there were a third dot).

 

[Hober Mallow]

All throughout TNG, they didn't know what to do with O'Brien for rank. He had a single pip, then two for Lt, then back to single for an NCO later, IIRC. Wasn't 'til DS9 where they finally hammered out an identifiable ranking display for enlisted officers (read: O'Brien) in that patch whilst the men and women who graduated the academy had pips.

Not quite. He had two pips signifying a Lt. rank for the first five seasons of TNG. It wasn't until TNG's sixth season/DS9's first season that they altered it and gave him one empty pip signifying an enlisted man. Even before that, though, he's referred to as an enlisted man as early as "Family" in the fourth season.

I seem to remember an early second season episode where Riker calls O'Brien "Leiutenant." And then of course, he was supposedly the "tactical officer" for Captain Maxwell in fourth season's "The Wounded." Until "Realm of Fear," that is, when he told Barclay something along the lines of being a transporter chief for twenty-some years.

The reason his history is so muddled is that his character developed from literally nothing. He didn't even have a name for his first appearance in "Encounter at Farpoint" or "Lonely Among Us" (where, to confuse matters further, he appears to be a security officer).

"All Good Things" compounded the rank confusion by giving him one solid pip signifying ensign (even though he had two pips in Encounter at Farpoint).

 

[arasam22]

lol i always thought chief o'brien was cool, so i was happy to see him with a bigger role on DS9.

amazing that he could go from a character with no name to a semi important character later in the series, to the main character of another series...

 

[mattyhugh]

"All Good Things" compounded the rank confusion by giving him one solid pip signifying ensign (even though he had two pips in Encounter at Farpoint).

Didn't he just have one pip in Encounter at Farpoint?

Edit: Memory Alpha think so.

1987: Appears in TNG: "Encounter at Farpoint" and is referred to as “Conn”. In this episode, O’Brien wears the single pip of a Starfleet Ensign (1). In TNG: "Lonely Among Us" appears again, with the same insignia, credited as a Security Guard.

 

[RyuRoots]

^Just a heads-up, that's Hober Mallow's quote, not mine.

And agreed, arasam22. Funny that he went from "curly-haired guy" in Encounter at Farpoint to being a big main character in another Trek show.

 

[mattyhugh]

^Just a heads-up, that's Hober Mallow's quote, not mine.

And agreed, arasam22. Funny that he went from "curly-haired guy" in Encounter at Farpoint to being a big main character in another Trek show.

Yeah some who it got all fraked up. I'll fix it.

 

[Nerys Myk]

His pips are on the midnight train to Georgia.

 

[Timo]

We could always argue that his TNG pips were black/hollow instead of silver all the time, and our TV sets just mucked it up.

If so, we'd only have three things to explain away:

1) How come he had two pips for a while, then only one?
2) How could he have been the tactical OFFICER once?
3) Why did Riker call him "Lieutenant" in one episode?

Possibilities:

1) He got promoted from Chief CPO (one pip, or three chevrons and one dot) to Senior CPO (two pips, or three chevrons and two dots), but only temporarily; perhaps Picard's field promotion was retroactively withdrawn by Starfleet, possibly because of something bad O'Brien did off screen. He only got re-promoted some years into his DS9 assignment.

2) Even a petty officer is an officer, just a petty one. The Rutledge on which he served may have been a small vessel, and the losses she was said to have taken against the Cardassians may have deprived her of competent commissioned officers. O'Brien might have stood in (as one of the many Tactical Officers) until things cleared up, then.

3) This is actually quite negotiable. Riker in "Where Silence Has Lease" is in the transporter room with two people, Lieutenant Worf and O'Brien. He specifies where he wants Worf and himself to end up, by saying "Aft station [of the bridge of the target ship], Lieutenant!". O'Brien acknowledges this, but it's equally possible that Riker was in fact addressing Lieutenant Worf, who'd also need to know where they were going.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Hober Mallow]

Didn't he just have one pip in Encounter at Farpoint?

Edit: Memory Alpha think so.

Memory Alpha is wrong. Just watch "Farpoint." He's wearing two pips, one solid, one empty, signifying a Lt. jr. grade.

 

[Timo]

Hmm... The TrekCore caps are inconclusive on that (although I'd argue there's only one pip there), but the revisit to those events in "All Good Things.." certainly has O'Brien wearing just the one pip.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Hober Mallow]

Hmm... The TrekCore caps are inconclusive on that (although I'd argue there's only one pip there), but the revisit to those events in "All Good Things.." certainly has O'Brien wearing just the one pip.

Timo Saloniemi

I tried to find a youtube link but all I can find is the cut up TV version of the two-part Farpoint that doesn't show a clear shot. you'll have to check the two-hour version for proof. He's wearing two pips in "Farpoint," one in "All Good Things." He always wore two pips on TNG until season 6/DS9 season 1.

 

[Timo]

Uh, but in "Lonely Among Us" where he dons a yellow shirt, he's one-pipped, now isn't he? From there on, it's two pips until "Realm of Fear".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[mattyhugh]

I think my head may explode.

 

[Captain Fine]

This is why we need TNG remastered