When Was Star Trek at its Most Popular?

[jaime]

I'm guessing their argument is based more on how TNG, outside of Trek-circles, is largely forgotten these days...

Except it isn't...Patrick Stewart is still known for Picard as much as anything, and the spoofs that turn up, from kids shows to stuff like family guy or futura a are as likely to reference TNG as TOS. Thingymajig actor chap, Scots fellow, whose name escapes me...James Macavoy? Was probably more excited to essentially be playing Young Picard than he was to be playing professor X, and says as much in interviews when he was publicising Days Of Future Past. (If only he has been older when they made Nemesis eh.)

 

[The Wormhole]

(If only he has been older when they made Nemesis eh.)

He's only two years younger than Tom Hardy.

 

[jaime]

He's only two years younger than Tom Hardy.

I think he was in Children Of Dune at the time. Which given Stewart was in the film, can also be a point of fun.

 

[uniderth]

I'm just glad my childhood was during the heyday of Star Trek. I would watch TNG with my mom. Then I found some video taped episodes of ST. In later years it was a family occasion to watch Voyager during/after dinner. I'm also glad I lived through the playmates and micromachines era of Trek toys. While I didn't get everything I wanted, I did get some great stuff.

 

[Saul]

Forgetting about ratings for a second....
I thought it's around 1996.
DS9 and Voyager were both on air at the same time. First Contact was at Movie Theaters. Star Trek was on TV all the time.

 

[JRoss]

1991-1993 or even 1994. As a kid I could always find people into Star Trek at school. Every Monday morning, "Did you see that the Borg came back?! Lore stole the emotion chip! Aren't the Klingons cool?" And there seemed to be far less of a social stigma about being a fan back then. It was just this rinky-dink syndicated show on Saturday evenings, but it felt like everyone watched it.

 

[Lance]

I'm guessing their argument is based more on how TNG, outside of Trek-circles, is largely forgotten these days...

Hm, I do see what you're saying, but as @jaime has already suggested, I'd argue that TNG's impact on pop culture has been at least as lasting as TOS. And as the discussion is about a historical context, it simply cannot be denied that Star Trek was at it's cultural apex during that period.... and TNG's success was the powerhouse behind it. I think the people (largely within fandom) who downplay that are doing so for their own reasons.... perhaps, as a ways of rationalizing in their own minds the contradiction of how TNG the series could be so popular, but how the TNG movies have come to be seen as so underwhelming, a kind of 'retroactive rewrite' of sorts.... but, look more broadly than the fandom, and there is still a large audience of "casuals" out there who were not only regular viewers at the time, but will speak with fondness and nostalgia for it to this day.

I would suggest that "largely forgotten" is a slight exaggeration.

 

[Trek Survivor]

100% agree with Lance.

 

[J.T.B.]

Hm, I do see what you're saying, but as @jaime has already suggested, I'd argue that TNG's impact on pop culture has been at least as lasting as TOS. And as the discussion is about a historical context, it simply cannot be denied that Star Trek was at it's cultural apex during that period.... and TNG's success was the powerhouse behind it.

First of all, that's impossible on the face of it, because TNG's impact is part of TOS's impact; the one would not have existed without the other. It's also not possible to judge if TNG's impact is "as lasting" as TOS because the latter has a 20 year head start.

As far as historical context goes, it's pretty clear that TOS rates higher than other Treks in the critical history of TV. For instance, two books by TV critics this year cite TOS highly. TV (The Book) by Alan Sepinwall and Matt Zoller Seitz ranks TOS 61st of the 100 best US shows of all time; TNG doesn't make the list (DS9 comes in at 91). The Platinum Age of Television by David Bianculli covers TOS as one of five pivotal sci-fi/fantasy/horror series. I haven't seen anything similar in favor of TNG.

 

[jaime]

First of all, that's impossible on the face of it, because TNG's impact is part of TOS's impact; the one would not have existed without the other. It's also not possible to judge if TNG's impact is "as lasting" as TOS because the latter has a 20 year head start.

As far as historical context goes, it's pretty clear that TOS rates higher than other Treks in the critical history of TV. For instance, two books by TV critics this year cite TOS highly. TV (The Book) by Alan Sepinwall and Matt Zoller Seitz ranks TOS 61st of the 100 best US shows of all time; TNG doesn't make the list (DS9 comes in at 91). The Platinum Age of Television by David Bianculli covers TOS as one of five pivotal sci-fi/fantasy/horror series. I haven't seen anything similar in favor of TNG.

That's because it's not the progenitor, nor does it have the same length of time to establish itself (especially for academic work) as TOS..it's the younger sibling. TOS is also from a very specific time and is a progenitor of a lot of TV scifi. In terms of historical context, TNG (and it's spin offs) is still writing it's history. And you see its effect any time you watch NCIS (very closely modelled on the TNG formula. It's almost funny) or go through the credits of a lot of American TV drama (it's great fun spotting DS9 references in Elementary.) It's a lot more subtle, and arguably, the absolute biggest contribution TOS made to TV was by making TNG possible...because it's TNG that has affected things like the syndication model, the procedural show...it's offspring DS9 was at the forefront of the kind of 'arc' storytelling that is now old hat in genre TV etc. It may not yet have fully cemented in 'popular culture' in the same way TOS did, but popular culture itself is different. There are more widespread TNG 'memes' (god I hate that word.) than TOS one for instance. I would also point out that TOS is a baby boomer thing....younger generations haven't had the time, and will never have the sheer numbers, to bubble their Trek into pop culture. Not for another twenty years or so anyway.

 

[Lance]

First of all, that's impossible on the face of it, because TNG's impact is part of TOS's impact; the one would not have existed without the other. It's also not possible to judge if TNG's impact is "as lasting" as TOS because the latter has a 20 year head start.

As far as historical context goes, it's pretty clear that TOS rates higher than other Treks in the critical history of TV. For instance, two books by TV critics this year cite TOS highly. TV (The Book) by Alan Sepinwall and Matt Zoller Seitz ranks TOS 61st of the 100 best US shows of all time; TNG doesn't make the list (DS9 comes in at 91). The Platinum Age of Television by David Bianculli covers TOS as one of five pivotal sci-fi/fantasy/horror series. I haven't seen anything similar in favor of TNG.

The context of this discussion is about the popcultural height of the franchise as a whole , though. I'm not intending to diminish TOS's importance, obviously it stands in high stead for without it there wouldn't even be a Star Trek at all. But TNG was incredibly popular in its day, and the franchise itself as a whole, not its constituent parts, never had as much mainstream popularity as it did during that very specific period. TNG was the biggest part of that.

TOS was the linchpin that allowed TNG, if you like, to then take the ball and get the touchdown. If I may use a mixed metaphor.

 

[Hey Missy]

Is it any coincidence that Playmates and Galoob dropped their Trek licenses around that 1997-1998 period when the franchise's popularity and viewership went downhill?

 

[jaime]

Is it any coincidence that Playmates and Galoob dropped their Trek licenses around that 1997-1998 period when the franchise's popularity and viewership went downhill?

Erm...playmates was still turning out stuff some five or six years later that I recall, gallon on the micro machine front I don't remember. But the licenses were bought by other companies, and are still going in some cases having changed hands or expanded into different areas. Playmates made the slightly naff figures for Trek 09.

 

[Hey Missy]

The number of figures made by Playmates after 1997 decreased exponentially and were relegated as Target exclusives. I think the only "new" character figure made was 7 of 9; the rest were repaints.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I would also point out that TOS is a baby boomer thing

Gotta disagree with this...TOS was at least as much a Gen X thing. It was at the height of its popularity in syndication in the '70s, when people my age, who weren't yet alive during its original broadcast, were watching it every afternoon. Until TNG came along, TOS was the primary source of Trek, with only a small handful of movies as more recent spin-off material. That's part of my generation's experience.

 

[jaime]

The number of figures made by Playmates after 1997 decreased exponentially and were relegated as Target exclusives. I think the only "new" character figure made was 7 of 9; the rest were repaints.

7 was the only new character to make a figure of. As far as I know, the licensing for enterprise never took off, partially because of the Viacom split, partially because they renegotiated a lot of stuff around enterprise...it didn't even have the same worldwide transmission licenses. Meanwhile companies like decipher were picking up Trek licenses, but not for enterprise. I won't deny there was a decline after 97, but it was a slow decline, and had more to do with behind the scenes issues around Enterprise and the Viacom split. It also had to do with the aging of Treks younger fans...action figures were mutating into the 'collectibles' we have today as a result. We didn't want to play with our toys any more. The 7 figure is precisely the mid point of this. The last of the child proportioned range (well the last new one) and we see the 'role play' toys become more expensive but also more detailed at this point. Look at the difference between the TNG phasers and Tricorders, then the Ds9 Bajoran phaser, then the TOS sets of the early 2ks. The market was shrinking as Trek got less mainstream, but it was also becoming a potentially more lucrative property...until the thing at the heart of it, the television production, failed it. I actually suspect that, if it was not for the Viacom split, and if they had got back on the horse and actually put something like Star Trek: Titan out (and actually followed through on Nemesis being a two or three part film) with some changes in the production team behind the scenes (Braga was burnt out, Berman needed to take a rest or a step back, as he essentially had done with Ds9...but he was the torch bearer no matter how he came by that and the stories around that. The reality was Treks production team were almost subconsciously harming the core franchise by this point. I really do not have the greatest opinion of Braga at this point either...the people who should have stayed moved on, the wrong horse was backed and we kept the wrong team.) but most of all if the Viacom split had not gone so badly creatively speaking, then things like the continued popularity of Stargate at this time prove they could have continued.
Ultimately it's behind the scenes, in the studios, where those decisions were being made (boy bands) that Trek was smacked into a coma. (Nemesis whole conception was the final hit. Enterprise was just the angry words.) Changing but existing audiences were abandoned (There's a parallel with Insurrection and its fountain of youth.) but I don't think TV was the much vaunted 'franchise fantigue' in the audience. It was all behind the scenes at the core.

 

[jaime]

Gotta disagree with this...TOS was at least as much a Gen X thing. It was at the height of its popularity in syndication in the '70s, when people my age, who weren't yet alive during its original broadcast, were watching it every afternoon. Until TNG came along, TOS was the primary source of Trek, with only a small handful of movies as more recent spin-off material. That's part of my generation's experience.

Gen X goes on quite while. I am right at the tail end of it...and even if TOS is in reruns in our time, it wasn't being made for us, it had been made in the sixties. The movies, TNG etc...those were the ones made with us as targets. My father was building enterprise model kits a decade before i was born...Trek was originated for his generation and older. I watched Chaplin films, every generation latches on to the Beatles at some point...the cyclical nature of human trends doesn't change the reality of when these things are originated, even if it shows their appeal being essentially timeless. TOS is a product of its time for the children of its time, and TNG and its siblings are the shows made for the children of that. The next generation quite literally. Those of us who were kids for TNG were teenagers for VOY...it's something that backfired come Enterprise. (As I type this there are comedy themed adverts for TNG reruns on the TV during the episode of the Exorcist currently being watched...TOS is currently being shown in SD over on CBS in between things like Walker Texas Ranger and Doctor Quinn medicine woman. It's practically an example in itself.) We didn't want 'not your fathers Star Trek' dressing up as exactly that.

 

[The Old Mixer]

^ You're only underscoring why generalizing about generations is problematic. Dismissing TOS as "a baby boomer thing" is far from the whole story. Maybe growing up watching TOS wasn't part of your experience, but Gen X begins with people who might have been just old enough to catch some TOS in its original airings, and firmly includes plenty of people who grew up watching it in syndication in the '70s, which is when TOS became a pop cultural phenomenon.

 

[jaime]

^ You're only underscoring why generalizing about generations is problematic. Dismissing TOS as "a baby boomer thing" is far from the whole story. Maybe growing up watching TOS wasn't part of your experience, but Gen X begins with people who might have been just old enough to catch some TOS in its original airings, and firmly includes plenty of people who grew up watching it in syndication in the '70s, which is when TOS became a pop cultural phenomenon.

Yes, generalising is a fiddly thing, but TOS was made when it was made. Who watches it when doesn't change that. TOS is product of its time, made in the context of that era. You can measure it by decades, by generations, however you measure it, the end result is the same. Trek is in some ways timeless, but the individual series are also of their time as well. The TOS demographic is only now fading as a marketable target for New TV.

 

[The Old Mixer]

TOS was made when it was made. Who watches it when doesn't change that.

That's ignoring a major element in the history of Trek (and not just TOS, but the franchise in general). There would have been no TNG if not for TOS's popularity in the '70s and '80s.