When was Dr Piper CMO of the Enterprise?

[Damian]

Most of the time, similarities between different works of fiction are not direct references, but convergent evolution -- different writers independently arriving at the same solution to the same problem.

You're probably right. The main thing that makes me wonder about that with McCoy and Piper is the timing of when they were released. The 3 works (if you include Strangers from the Sky in the mix) all came out within about a 2 or 3 year span of each other.

 

[Christopher]

The main thing that makes me wonder about that with McCoy and Piper is the timing of when they were released. The 3 works (if you include Strangers from the Sky in the mix) all came out within about a 2 or 3 year span of each other.

Which is more likely to be an argument against conscious reference, since there's a lot of lead time to the creation of fiction, and so the later one might have been written before the earlier one was released, or before the author had a chance to read the earlier one. And there were plenty of people who were only familiar with the novels and not the comics, or vice-versa. McIntyre's work showed familiarity with TOS and The Making of Star Trek, but that was about it as far as I recall.

 

[Damian]

Which is more likely to be an argument against conscious reference, since there's a lot of lead time to the creation of fiction, and so the later one might have been written before the earlier one was released, or before the author had a chance to read the earlier one. And there were plenty of people who were only familiar with the novels and not the comics, or vice-versa. McIntyre's work showed familiarity with TOS and The Making of Star Trek, but that was about it as far as I recall.

Well, you'd know more about that than I so I'll concede that.

But it's a minor plot point in both books that just happened to be consistent. Like I said, I kind of like the idea better that Piper was a holdover from Pike's command and McCoy started after WNMHGB. I can't even say why. It just feels more natural, as silly as that sounds. You said Mere Anarchy went with that idea (as soon as I'm done my Day of Honor Omnibus I plan to read that) and My Brother's Keeper did the same (well at least as far as McCoy not taking over until after Piper retired), and you noted you did as well in your upcoming book. That seems to be the going trend these days.

I guess in 1986 when all there was the original series, it was probably a bigger deal to keep it focused on the familiar crew. But these days with numerous shows not featuring the original cast, having some of these other characters isn't a big deal anymore.

 

[TheAlmanac]

But with ETFA, I have to wonder if the author might’ve been misremembering facts, or was only remembering the series as it was aired. Yeah, there were some Beta and VHS tapes out there in 1984-85, (according to Memory Alpha, from 1980-1985 there were 11 episodes out on VHS & Beta And none were WNMHGB, the closest was Menagerie; Paramount didn’t start the complete series release until sometime in 1985) but for the most part the author’s had to rely on reruns on TV, their memory and the James Blish/Alan Dean Foster adaptations.

Authors could also rely on the Star Trek Concordance, which was the go-to reference work for this sort of thing at the time...I would imagine/hope that McIntyre had a copy in her possession to prevent that very kind of misremembering.

 

[Christopher]

Authors could also rely on the Star Trek Concordance, which was the go-to reference work for this sort of thing at the time...I would imagine/hope that McIntyre had a copy in her possession to prevent that very kind of misremembering.

I think McIntyre actually repeated the Concordance's mistaken use of "Constellation class," and possibly its "Joseph Boyce" error as well. So, yeah, she had it. We all had The Making of Star Trek and the Concordance back then, because there wasn't much else available.

 

[Desert Kris]

I think McIntyre actually repeated the Concordance's mistaken use of "Constellation class," and possibly its "Joseph Boyce" error as well. So, yeah, she had it. We all had The Making of Star Trek and the Concordance back then, because there wasn't much else available.

Now that is one thing I've been wondering about. Of all the authors I've read so far, McIntyre is the only one who refers to the Enterprise as a Constellation class, while all other books designate her as a Constitution class or starship class. Even the movie novelizations, as far along as TVH. I've been baffled for the longest time about where that comes from.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I decided to place this question here, as there really is not on screen canon explanation for when Dr. Piper was CMO of the Enterprise.

I ask the question now because I'm currently doing a re-read of "Enterprise: The First Adventure" by Vonda McIntyre. Now much of the character placements are hard to reconcile with "Where No Man Has Gone Before", which I'll cover elsewhere once I'm finished with the novel.

One thing is that the novel has Dr. McCoy as the chief medical officer from the time Kirk took command of the Enterprise, and ignores Dr. Piper's presence on the Enterprise from WNMHGB.

Except he is mentioned in the novel as replacing Dr. Boyce when Dr. Boyce left the Enterprise, then he retired when Captain Pike was promoted. When Kirk is having difficulty locating Dr. McCoy is tries to contact Dr. Piper to see if he could fill in until they find McCoy (but McCoy is eventually found).

Now later novels seemed to return to the idea that Dr. Piper was Kirk's first CMO and Dr. McCoy took over after Piper retired, about a year into Kirk's first command (though if you go with the idea that the 5 YM started after WNMHGB then McCoy was there to start that mission--which makes sense, all the crew turnover between WNMHGB and "The Corbomite Manuever" can be attributed in universe to the preparation on a long mission when such a larger scale turnover would be expected to take place).

So that leads to my question. I sort of thought it was always possible Dr Piper started as CMO during Pike's command. Pike was in command of the Enterprise for more than 11 years, it's reasonable to assume members of his staff left for other posts or retired. In a lot of ways it makes sense. Just because a new captain takes over does not mean that there would be a complete overhaul of all the senior staff. For instance a number of novels have gone with the idea that Scotty was chief engineer going back to Pike's command and that he started on the Enterprise as a junior engineer several years before Kirk took command.

What do others think? I posted a poll out of curiosity. Just a simple yes/no.

With the existence of Dr. Piper, along with Gary Mitchell's history with Kirk, Kirk had a longer tenure as C.O. onboard the Starship Enterprise?

 

[Damian]

I think McIntyre actually repeated the Concordance's mistaken use of "Constellation class," and possibly its "Joseph Boyce" error as well. So, yeah, she had it. We all had The Making of Star Trek and the Concordance back then, because there wasn't much else available.

Definitely remember Constellation class being noted in E: TFA.

Now that is one thing I've been wondering about. Of all the authors I've read so far, McIntyre is the only one who refers to the Enterprise as a Constellation class, while all other books designate her as a Constitution class or starship class. Even the movie novelizations, as far along as TVH. I've been baffled for the longest time about where that comes from.

Yeah, I found it a bit confusing back then myself. I also remember the refit-Enterprise from the movies being listed as an "Enterprise" class somewhere.

If I recall correctly a Constellation class was eventually created and used for the Stargazer, Picard's first command.

 

[Christopher]

I also remember the refit-Enterprise from the movies being listed as an "Enterprise" class somewhere.

The simulator in TWOK had a sign saying "ENTERPRISE CLASS BRIDGE SIMULATOR," IIRC, but the blueprints Scotty studied in TUC said "Constitution Class." (So maybe it was for the class about the Enterprise at the Academy? )

If I recall correctly a Constellation class was eventually created and used for the Stargazer, Picard's first command.

Yes. IIRC, it was scripted and filmed as Constitution class, since they planned to use the Enterprise miniature, but then they changed their minds and decided to go with a new class. So they chose a name that could be looped over the mouth movements of the actors saying "Constitution."

 

[Stevil2001]

Now that is one thing I've been wondering about. Of all the authors I've read so far, McIntyre is the only one who refers to the Enterprise as a Constellation class, while all other books designate her as a Constitution class or starship class. Even the movie novelizations, as far along as TVH. I've been baffled for the longest time about where that comes from.

Constellation class is also used in DC's Mirror Universe Saga, which I reread just the other day.

 

[JD]

The simulator in TWOK had a sign saying "ENTERPRISE CLASS BRIDGE SIMULATOR," IIRC, but the blueprints Scotty studied in TUC said "Constitution Class." (So maybe it was for the class about the Enterprise at the Academy? )

My take on that would be that they had different "classes" of simulators based around different ships. So some exercises were done on the "Enterprise class" simulator, some on an "Excalibur class" or a "Defiant class".

 

[Desert Kris]

Constellation class is also used in DC's Mirror Universe Saga, which I reread just the other day.

Nice, I like that storyline. If I had to guess, I probably didn't remember that comic story going with the Constellation designation because of that story being more of a visual medium, whereas with the novels, it's all words. I'll have to drag that story out and flip through it again just for curiosities' sake...darn!

 

[JonnyQuest037]

For instance a number of novels have gone with the idea that Scotty was chief engineer going back to Pike's command and that he started on the Enterprise as a junior engineer several years before Kirk took command.

Yeah. That's the case in D.C. Fontana's novel Vulcan's Glory, which depicts Spock's first mission aboard Pike's Enterprise. A subplot in the book concerns young Scotty constructing a still to make engine room hooch and hiding the apparatus from his superiors.

I suppose that Dr. Piper could've been a holdover from the Pike era, but like Christopher, I find Piper to be such a nonentity that I don't find the idea especially interesting. I'm much more intrigued by the concept of Scotty being Pike's last Chief Engineer (or even a junior engineer, and getting bumped up to chief when Kirk comes aboard), and regarding his new Captain Kirk was a wet-behind-the-ears interloper at first.

it could just as easily have been a nod to Mike Barr's "All Those Years Ago..." version of Kirk's first mission from DC's first Trek annual, which also contrived to have McCoy aboard at the start and explained that he'd need to take leave for Joanna's wedding in a few months.

Her college graduation, not her wedding.

On that front, did you throw any nods or Easter eggs toward E:TFA in your novel? That you can share anyway

Nope. I always preferred Mike Barr's version, so the nods go in that direction.

Nice! "All Those Year's Ago..." is a big favorite of mine, too (It's still my headcanon for how Kirk's 5YM started), so I'm glad to hear that it'll be getting some tips of the hat in your story.

Yes -- the first Enterprise mission is a frame story for the saga of Kirk's first starship command.

Sounds great! I'm really looking forward to this book coming out! Can you share what the name of Kirk's first command is?

I think McIntyre actually repeated the Concordance's mistaken use of "Constellation class," and possibly its "Joseph Boyce" error as well. So, yeah, she had it. We all had The Making of Star Trek and the Concordance back then, because there wasn't much else available.

Mike W. Barr also repeated the Concordance's "Joseph Boyce" error in his Star Trek Annual #1 story.