When Trek insults our intelligence
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
- Start date
Yeesh, well I'm off to MA to check but that title alone reminds me why I skipped most of it.
Somehow the last part of my final sentence wasn't posted.you mean Brexit was reversed ? lol
But since I'm not sure what you mean anyway, I have no idea if that makes a difference. You might want to go back and check.
Brexit doesn't need to be set in stone, and it's irrelevant anyway. It's not like physical walls are going to be put up and nobody from the UK or France can ever enter each other's country again, or that their many centuries of shared language and culture and history will suddenly be wiped from peoples' memories and the history books.
No. Just. No.
While I'd trust DiCaprio not to portray Kirk as Captain Frat Boy, I haven't taken him seriously since he freaked out while filming near Calgary because a chinook happened and he was convinced it was due to global warming.
You're both right, of course, in real-world terms, but it's also possible to rationalize it pretty reasonably in-universe. There's evidence to suggest that in Star Trek's future, the global wars of the 21st (and late 20th!) century were far more devastating to Asia than to the US or European nations. Hence English remained the global lingua franca; when a one-world government was crafted after First Contact it was built on the western model; and Asians made up a significantly reduced share of the global population. When the Federation was formed less than a century later, Earth was the "neutral arbiter," the one world among the founders with no previous hostile relations with the others (and, perhaps?, the main hero of the Romulan War), so it became the seat of UFP government and the headquarters of Starfleet. In light of that, a disproportionate share of Starfleet recruits tend to come from Earth, and from (what were) the western nations on Earth.
Likewise with Doctor Who: sure, the Doctor is an alien, but it just happened that the UK was the part of Earth he and his granddaughter chose to hide in, way back in his first incarnation. The first humans he befriended were British. Hence that was the culture he got to know best, the one he became fond of, so every time he came back after regenerating (or otherwise leaving Earth) that's where he went, and the pattern of familiarity just reinforced itself. I suspect the Doctor really thinks of the UK as "home" now, although he'd surely never admit it.
Quite so.
But...
Really? I never thought so; ounce for ounce I'd say Sisko is actually more "stereotypically" American. (Sure, TOS does have "The Omega Glory," which is an undeniably hokey episode... but even so it's fair to say that every halfway educated American can recite the Pledge of Allegiance and the opening lines of the Constitution, so that's nothing special about Kirk.) I am genuinely curious... where are you from, and what aspects of Kirk's character seem especially "American" to you in an unfamiliar way?
You say it with a smiley, but it's the truth. As an American born and bred, I am shamefully monolingual, and when I travel abroad I most definitely rely heavily on the fact that English is the global common tongue. (I don't do it unconsciously, though... so yeah, that's still a plot hole!...)Taylor and Brent [in Planet of the Apes] could simply have been two of the stereotypical American travelers who just naturally expect that no matter where they go, everyone they meet will speak English, so they never thought there was anything at all unusual.
Yeah, no reason to believe that "all's fair in love and war" will become an unfamiliar phrase even centuries in the future. Still and all, though, I suspect that the word "homewrecker" may fall out of fashion... indeed, it largely already has, much like the expression that a child comes from a "broken home"... because it privileges the (frankly historically anomalous) nuclear-family scenario of two monogamously married parents raising offspring in their own home, and hence marginalizes anyone who lives in a different arrangement, through either circumstance or choice.
"By that point"? How about "since the 11th century"?...
Part of what I'd intended to say got cut off. I did go back and edit my post. Of course by the 24th century, there had been a shared history for over 1000 years."By that point"? How about "since the 11th century"?...
That would be one way of looking at it, however that isn't the only way of interpreting the information presented.
During TOS I believe the intent was more a "space United Nations."
The TNG writers/director guide refers to the Federation as a alliance.
Or maybe just to show exceptions?
Sulu was supposed to be a "pan-asian" character, then in one of the movies it's revealed that he was born outside of Asia in San Fransisco. So another American.
Of the first five series, four of the captains were American.
The decision was made with the Lorca character that the actor would not use his natural British accent and instead employ a deliberate American accent (although the one time the accent was Scottish).
Bomber pilot (not trying to cut you down there).
The actual internal structure of the Federation, and the Federation council, is largely unknown. We know of some terms being used, and there is a president who is elected, and Bajor is to select multiple people to be sent to the council.
I would prefer that the future culture is different, and even somewhat strange, than the one I live in. Would make it more interesting.
The Federation council should (imho) be as different as possible, consistent with what little we do know. While there would be some Human input, it should be as non-human oriented and structured as the writers can come up with.
In Who the Gods would Destroy, Kirk seem to be saying that a fairly resent event made the Federation closer than it was, or brought what it currently was into existence.
This would not be completely inconsistent with the Federation being a century old by that point, just that the Federation for the majority of it history was different.
A war, perhaps?
'Whom Gods Destroy' (not trying to cut you down there)
The President's office I thought greatly resembles the office of President of the United States. In many countries the President is largely a figurehead without much real executive power. In the Federation the President has more executive authority. We saw that in Star Trek IV, VI and in Deep Space Nine. Also the President has authority over Starfleet, the military arm of the Federation, much like our President is the Commander of our armed forces. He also has a chief of staff like our chief of staff. So there are a number of canon sources that indicates the political structure is similar to that of the United States.
The novels explain more the function of the cabinet and show a cabinet that reports to the President, the Council is the legislature (one difference there is it's unicameral, instead of our bicameral legislature--but they still pass laws that the President has to sign).
One bright spot about the future Federation is no political parties
. They have disagreements like any other representative democracy, and people run against each other, but their individuals and they don't have to satisfy party leaders or their party members, just their constituents and the Federation, the way it should be (ok I'm done with my soapbox).Perhaps it's not as much his character, but the 'hero template' he seems to be following. Often getting a feeling I'm really looking at a thinly veiled Western, where the noble young cowboy is driving into unchartered territory and representing the good of the law (in this case: the Federation). May have a few friends who ride with him and they ride into the sunset at the end of the episode, after having corrected the injustice they found this week, but we don't really learn that much about his private life- if he even has one. He is a larger than life figure (just generalising in very broad strokes, of course). I never cared for Westerns so perhaps this is wat alienates me ever so slightly.
So perhaps it's the theme and his 'template' rather than his character that does it for me. That's not to say I consider him stereotypically American in the sense he is a kind of person I'd actually expect to meet when over in America. Sisko might be -- can't really judge that (I'm assuming we are not going by superficials such as "likes baseball") -- but then again I might expect to meet a person like Sisko in my own home city as well - at least in his 'everyday' stuff (his hobbies, his doubts, his small difficulties and joys when raising his son, and so on), of course not as far as his 'Emissary' and 'pivotal role in Dominion war' stuff is concerned. In short, he is more recognisable/relatable to me.
Also it could simply be because it is a 60's product whereas I was born in the 70's.
Oh, and I'm Dutch- not that I really think it matters in this context, though.
Since TOS was pitched as a Western style format ("Wagon Train to the Stars") I wonder if that was a product of the times.
Star Trek was pitched as "Wagon Train to the Stars", which was a popular Western at the time. Jim Kirk is a space cowboy, which is part of why I personally think his character is so fun to watch.
I was born in the 70's, as well but am an American. So I guess I find the character more relatable. Everyone wants to grow up to be the big damn hero and Jim Kirk is that written large.
Trek most insults our intelligence when it delivers bullshit stories that were written while the scriptwriter was on the can. Those are the times I feel most insulted because whatever the makers of these shows think of Trekkies, or whatever, some of us out here expect to watch this shite and be entertained. Any of the Holodeck episodes are amongst the worst perpetrators of this. "A Fistful of Datas" is one of the least popular ones, though I like that Troi's supposed to have fantasies of being a cowgirl. It's kind of cute, really, but yeah ... weak episodes like that really suck. Especially when, as a fan of the show, you've been waiting all week for it and then you get hit with this shite. I know that not every show can be a "winner," but this is what these people do for a living. You know? They went to school for it, most of them, and despite getting paid ridiculous sums of money, they really hate being made to work. I never understood that, because it's hardly "work." It's more like a License to Steal. I just hate when they're blatant about it ... that's what I find insulting.
One person's poison is another person's tonic.
The old 'snake oil' wasn't for everyone, but some swore by it....
The old 'snake oil' wasn't for everyone, but some swore by it....
Snake oil ... was that like KY, back in the cowboy days?
I always hated the just a little surgical alteration can make you look like an alien species. Don't even get me started on Profit and Lace where they change Quark's sex.
It’s the future, not the NHS. They can strip you down to an energy wave and put you back again.
Discovery did a great job with this trope.I always hated the just a little surgical alteration can make you look like an alien species. Don't even get me started on Profit and Lace where they change Quark's sex.
