When Trek insults our intelligence

[The Old Mixer]

The reason he likes STD has little to do with video games, though the nihilism present in many doesn't help. It's because he's the second of two entire generations that grew up indoctrinated both in schools and pop culture that he will die at any moment of entirely fictional causes. If you ask, I suspect that you'll find his world is one of nothing but impending doom -- tomorrow. He's been taught that there's nothing to look forward to but death.

I have to call BS on this for a reason that you went on to touch upon...the two prior generations were the first to be born into a world that could be ended with the push of a button, and it was commonly believed until the end of the Cold War that nuclear Armageddon would occur within our lifetimes. What's more, the earlier of those generations was drafted to serve in a futile war that racked up an atrocious body count...a situation that later generations have never known. The popular culture of the '60s may have been relatively bright and hopeful, but the evening news wasn't.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'm 59 and I don't see the nihilism.

 

[WRStone]

Nerys, the nihilism is inherent in characters incapable of doing the right thing, even when it's obviously before them -- such as walking away when the Klingons said they wanted nothing to do with them.

The Old Mixer, call BS all you like, but I saw the culture change around me. It is most assuredly not hopeful, despite the fact that things have never been better.

I watched the last generation to be drafted. It hasn't happened in over 45 years, despite multiple (often counter-productive at best) wars.

We live in a science fictional world. I never thought I'd live to own a tricorder, but we each have one in our pocket.

Things are only getting better. The inability to see this is a result of an increasingly-nihilistic culture.

Star Trek was once a stand-out in a sea of negativity. It's now part of that negativity.

Or stupidity. Stories need to make sense, not just have flashy visuals.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Nerys, the nihilism is inherent in characters incapable of doing the right thing, even when it's obviously before them -- such as walking away when the Klingons said they wanted nothing to do with them.

It's a TV show. The characters often do the wrong thing first and then come to realize what the right thing to do is. That's not nihilism, that's drama 101.

 

[WRStone]

It's nihilism. When the only action you can think of is the wrong one, you've adopted a nihilistic worldview.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I would never describe DSC as nihilistic. I honestly don't understand how anyone could.

nihilism is inherent in characters incapable of doing the right thing, even when it's obviously before them -- such as walking away when the Klingons said they wanted nothing to do with them.

The Klingons wanted war. They weren't going to stop until they got one. Even if the Shenzhou had turned tail and fled, there still would have been a war. Because that's just what Klingons do.

 

[WRStone]

Well, I didn't really want to get into a discussion of STD specifically. Indeed, I'm probably dropping the thread. I've said my piece, so agree or disagree as you may.

In any case, I'm eating up commentary best saved for my show.

 

[TrickyDickie]

My 15 year old son and I have watched every episode of TNG, VOY, ENT, DS9, and DSC. He's not interested in even trying TOS, and he thinks DSC had the best first season of all of them. Kids today, eh?

Here's a thought:

What was his opinion of the mirror universe? If he was intrigued at all by that, then 'Mirror, Mirror' might be a foot in the door with TOS.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Having better gadgets than previous generations doesn't make the world an inherently, objectively better place. Better tech made for more lethal wars...and vice versa.

 

[Timewalker]

The existence of the USS Intrepid - a Starfleet vessel crewed entirely by Vulcans - proves it.

Who got there first - Spock or the Intrepid crew?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Who got there first - Spock or the Intrepid crew?

Spock was a LCDR/CDR during TOS' run. The Intrepid, being a Constitution-class ship just like the Enterprise, presumably had a full command crew up to and including the rank of Captain. So since there must have been officers on the Intrepid who outranked Spock, some of them must have been in Starfleet before Spock.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It's nihilism. When the only action you can think of is the wrong one, you've adopted a nihilistic worldview.

Nah. Because in fiction it's usually the start of a journey, not the end. Take an episode like Devil In the Dark. Kirk and company start out all torches and pitchforks, ready to kill the monster. By the end they've made friends with a mother and it's children.

 

[Timewalker]

Spock was a LCDR/CDR during TOS' run. The Intrepid, being a Constitution-class ship just like the Enterprise, presumably had a full command crew up to and including the rank of Captain. So since there must have been officers on the Intrepid who outranked Spock, some of them must have been in Starfleet before Spock.

Do any of the source books or "making of" books confirm this?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Do any of the source books or "making of" books confirm this?

It's all guess work. Deductions made from the information at hand. I doubt anyone in charge gave it much thought past, "Wouldn't it be interesting if Spock sensed the death of a ship full of Vulcans".

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Do any of the source books or "making of" books confirm this?

I don't know, I've never read them.

I do know that the Intrepid actually appeared onscreen (for the first time) in the remastered version of "Court Martial", in which it was definitely shown to be a Constitution-class ship, with the registry NCC-1631.

And even in the original broadcast (of "The Immunity Syndrome"), the Intrepid was said to have a crew of 430 - just like the Enterprise - so it's strongly implied, even then, that it's a Connie.

 

[TrickyDickie]

Nihilism?

I invite everyone to read this article. In its entirety. Don't be put off by thinking it's all political. There is much more to it than that:

https://whorulesamerica.ucsc.edu/change/left_and_right.html

It's quite interesting.

Personally, I feel that too many people establish their own personal worldview, lock it firmly into place, and don't allow anything to change it.

Then they sit up there on Mount Olympiss and judge, judge, judge.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Another school of thought is that in Kirk's time, Starfleet was chiefly an Earth organization (as was often stated onscreen), and the Intrepid crew could have transferred from Vulcan's space agency rather than came up through Starfleet Academy.

 

[MacLeod]

ven

Spock was a LCDR/CDR during TOS' run. The Intrepid, being a Constitution-class ship just like the Enterprise, presumably had a full command crew up to and including the rank of Captain. So since there must have been officers on the Intrepid who outranked Spock, some of them must have been in Starfleet before Spock.

Perhaps, or perhaps some advanced through the ranks quicker. Or perhaps as Vulcans live to be over 200 years when the various star fleets merged when the Federation was formed to create the Federation Starfleet ranks where maintained so a Vulcan star ship CO became a Federation star ship CO,

 

[TrickyDickie]

IIRC, one of the novels had it that the Vulcans were responsible for designing the Intrepid II....the first Connie re-design and precursor to re-fitting the Enterprise to that design.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Another school of thought is that in Kirk's time, Starfleet was chiefly an Earth organization (as was often stated onscreen), and the Intrepid crew could have transferred from Vulcan's space agency rather than came up through Starfleet Academy.

In @Christopher's excellent 'Rise of the Federation' novels, he puts forth the suggestion that the early Federation Starfleet was made up of contingents from each of its founding member worlds, all of which are responsible for a different area of expertise. And that the different uniform insignia we always used to see in TOS didn't mean a different insignia for each SHIP, but rather for each of the "sub-fleets" that originally comprised Starfleet.

Meaning, these ships were all Starfleet, and crewed BY Starfleet officers, yet retained some semblance of their original mission dating back to the Federation's early years. To wit:

- Research & Development: Vulcan Space Council. Starfleet uniform insignia: IDIC symbol. Example: USS Intrepid ("The Immunity Syndrome").

- Exploration: United Earth Space Probe Agency. Insignia: Arrowhead. Example: USS Enterprise, USS Discovery

- Military defense: Andorian Imperial Guard. Insignia: Pretzel. Example: USS Constellation ("The Doomsday Machine").

- Operational support and supply: Tellar Space Administration. Insignia: Hoof. Example: USS Antares ("Charlie X").

- R&D, similar to the Vulcans: Alpha Centauri Space Research Counci. Insignia: Rectangle. Example: USS Exeter ("The Omega Glory").