When is it right to escape the justice of other planets?

[marsh8472]

It's happened throughout star trek where someone is convicted of a crime on another planet, the crew do not agree with the judgement and then mount a rescue of the accused.

Star Trek 6

FEDERATION PRESIDENT: You cannot possibly believe that James Kirk assassinated the Chancellor of the High Council.
NANCLUS: Mister President, I don't know what to believe.
KLINGON AMBASSADOR: I am waiting for your answer, sir.
FEDERATION PRESIDENT: This President is not above the law.
SECRETARY (on intercom): Mister President, Starfleet Command is here from San Francisco.
FEDERATION PRESIDENT: Send them in.
C in C: Mister President.
CARTWRIGHT: Mister President.
FEDERATION PRESIDENT: Bill, ...Admiral Cartwright, Please, please sit down.
CARTWRIGHT: Mister President we cannot allow Federation citizens to be abducted.
FEDERATION PRESIDENT: Yes, yes Admiral, but I am constrained to observe Interstellar Law.

TNG "Justice"

PICARD: I understand. Perhaps your system of law and punishment is better than any system we once had. But we do now have a law I must obey. And part of it says I must protect my people from harm.
LIATOR: We did not ask you to come here.
RIKER: Which has to do with another law that we must obey.
PICARD: We are all sworn not to interfere with other lives in the galaxy. If I save this boy, I break that law.

ENT "Detained"

T'POL: The hearing's in three days.
TUCKER: And what if they're found guilty, sentenced to thirty years in prison?
T'POL: That's unlikely. If you want to explore alien cultures you'll need to learn to respect their laws. If Captain Archer were here, I'm sure he'd agree. If you'd like, I'll contact the Vulcan High Command. They might be willing to send an arbitrator.

Voyager "The Chute"

PIRI: Our brigade found out where the maximum security detention facility is located.
VEL: My sister has quite a vivid imagination.
PIRI: With this ship, you can attack the prison and get your people out.
JANEWAY: I'm sorry. That's not how we do things where I come from.
...
JANEWAY: We've captured the ship and crew responsible for the bombing at the Laktivia canteen.
LIRIA [on viewscreen]: I see.
JANEWAY: I'm prepared to trade them for the immediate and unconditional release of Lieutenant Paris and Ensign Kim.
LIRIA [on viewscreen]: Your crewmen have already been tried and convicted.
JANEWAY: Are you saying those convictions can't be reversed? No matter what new evidence is brought to light?
LIRIA [on viewscreen]: You are correct.
JANEWAY: That is an outrageous policy.
LIRIA [on viewscreen]: I assure you, it has proved to be a most effective deterrent. Good day, Captain.

Voyager "Random Thoughts"

PARIS: While Tuvok and the captain are reviewing the evidence, B'Elanna's sitting in a Mari jail cell waiting for some sort of lobotomy. We can't let that happen.
CHAKOTAY: What did you have in mind?
PARIS: Break her out.
CHAKOTAY: And risk an all-out confrontation with the Mari?
PARIS: They're a bunch of pacifists. They're no match for us.
CHAKOTAY: You're probably right. But before we start resorting to extreme measures, don't you think we should give the captain a chance to find a legal solution?
PARIS: By the time that happens, it may be too late.
CHAKOTAY: I'll tell you what. Why don't you come up with a rescue plan, one that minimises the possibility of violence, and I'll review it.
PARIS: You're just trying to keep me busy, aren't you?
CHAKOTAY: Can you blame me?
PARIS: I'm serious about this, Chakotay.
CHAKOTAY: So am I. If your plan is sound and the captain doesn't have any luck on her end, I'll recommend we attempt the rescue.
PARIS: Thanks. I'll get right on it.

TNG "The Outcast"

RIKER: I can't just leave her there. They'll give her these psychotectic treatments. I don't know what to do.
PICARD: Well, I could talk to Noor. Perhaps there's a way to work something out.
RIKER: Sir, their minds are set. They don't want to hear another alternative.
PICARD: Then I'm not sure that there's much that we can do.
RIKER: There has to be. My relationship with Soren is not trivial. She's very important to me. It's my fault that this happened. I have to help her.
PICARD: Will, if you've come here for sanction to take matters into your own hands, I can't give it to you.
RIKER: I know that, but I have to do something.
PICARD: Interfering in the internal matters of the J'naii is prohibited by the Prime Directive.
RIKER: I'm aware of that.
PICARD: If you violate it, you may jeopardising your career. Starfleet doesn't take these matters lightly, Will. I can't defend you if you go too far. Do you understand that?
RIKER: You've made yourself very clear, sir.
PICARD: Don't risk everything you've worked for.
RIKER: Thank you. May I be excused now?

When is it the correct and not correct to escape the justice of other planets?

 

[Tosk]

Don't they pretty much always rescue them*?

If so then the answer is, it's always right to escape the justice of other planets.

*Or sometimes prove them innocent with new information. But if they weren't able to save them that way, you can bet your ass they would have just beamed them out and gotten out of dodge.

 

[marsh8472]

Don't they pretty much always rescue them*?

If so then the answer is, it's always right to escape the justice of other planets.

*Or sometimes prove them innocent with new information. But if they weren't able to save them that way, you can bet your ass they would have just beamed them out and gotten out of dodge.

Maybe they shouldn't be doing that though. Like with this example

ENT Judgment

MAGISTRATE: I have weighed the evidence carefully. Advocate Kolos has made an impressive case, much to the surprise of this tribunal. Based upon his arguments I am inclined to believe that the accused was a victim of his own foolishness. He was not fomenting rebellion. But, as Prosecutor Orak has made clear, the laws of the Empire have been violated and Captain Archer must be held accountable for his actions regardless of his intent. I therefore find the accused guilty as charged. (popular acclamation from the galleries) However! However this tribunal cannot ignore his actions assisting the Klingon people. Therefore the sentence of death is commuted. Silence! Jonathan Archer, you are condemned to the dilithium mines on the penal colony of Rura Pente for the remainder of your life. Remove the prisoner.

Maybe Archer should have turned himself in. Sure the justice system isn't always fair but does that excuse a prison break?

 

[Tosk]

Sure the justice system isn't always fair but does that excuse a prison break?

If it was me in the prison, yes. Absolutely.

 

[Gul Sengosts]

Depends. When Wesley was going to be executed, I thought they had a fair point and we should have respected their customs.

 

[Tosk]

Yeah, fuck those flowers.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

When the other planet's law is stupid, of course.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

In the general case you need to respect the other culture's law. And really Justice is the crew's fault for not doing their homework. Guess the diplomatic recon mission went like this: "So, you really have sex with anyone who asks? Cool! No more questions." But this is the extreme case where it's just not morally reasonable to allow a person to be executed because they crossed a white line. Moral relativism only goes so far.

Then there's the case like Tribunal where if the other country's law is "You can say anyone is guilty and they die with no recourse".

In Dax we see them fully respecting another country's legal system. The thing about the show is that if they came across a legal system that was totally reasonable, there wouldn't be much of a story. So every time we have a good story, it's probably the exceptional case where the only reasonable thing is to not follow the law.

 

[Gul Sengosts]

In case of doubt, I wasn't talking about the justification of killing someone for damaging a greenhouse. Had it been Riker or anyone else, they certainly should have been saved. But Wes? In hindsight, it seems like such an unfortunate mistake, such a sadly missed opportunity to get rid of him.

 

[marsh8472]

In case of doubt, I wasn't talking about the justification of killing someone for damaging a greenhouse. Had it been Riker or anyone else, they certainly should have been saved. But Wes? In hindsight, it seems like such an unfortunate mistake, such a sadly missed opportunity to get rid of him.

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[LAFR]

Sounds sort of when 3 dumbass basketball players get arrested in China and have someone get them out before they get put away.

 

[BillJ]

In Dax we see them fully respecting another country's legal system.

We also see it in TNG's "A Matter of Perspective" (season three).

 

[Mojochi]

Always. It's always right to escape. That's why it's called escape. Escape is always a good thing, when you need it. You shouldn't have to escape, unless you need to, & if you need to... you probably ought to lol

That said, I'd say there's only two reasons to submit, or allow someone in your party to submit, to outside penal action. #1, when you yourself would subject the guilty party to the same level of punishment (or reasonably similar) for having been proven guilty of the crime. #2, when not submitting would cause significantly more loss of life, in other words, the needs of the many vs the needs of the few

In the case of the 1st exception, take Riker in A Matter of Perspective. Had he actually committed the murder he was accused of, then yeah, you leave him right there for what he's got coming, because you too would punish that crime

In the 2nd exception, take Picard in Chain of Command. Sure, he was under orders, but admitting that or mounting some kind of half assed rescue, that could flame up an entire war, which may cost millions of lives? Probably not. Without Jellico, Picard rots in Cardassian prison for a while, at the very least. He actually did commit the crime of infiltrating a Cardassian world & assaulting people there. He's not entirely to blame, but some times you take one for the team. He knew what he was doing was wrong. He did it because he was led to believe a greater wrong was happening there

We also see it in TNG's "A Matter of Perspective" (season three).

Respecting the process, maybe, but if they'd tried to punish him based on their system of guilty until proven innocent, & Picard still thought he might be innocent, I doubt they'd have abandoned Riker to them

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It's a little disconcerting that it seems every other legal system in the galaxy is guilty until proven innocent and admits hearsay as evidence.

 

[Vger23]

Another example of Star Trek's tendency to have high-sounding, pie-in-the-sky ideals...until...the need for drama demands otherwise.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It's made clear that it's the general policy of Starfleet to obey the laws of other cultures, and in some cases extradition treaties have been cited. But in the real world, in extreme cases you sometimes have to just say "Come on."

 

[The Wormhole]

Depends. When Wesley was going to be executed, I thought they had a fair point and we should have respected their customs.

You think it's fair that a teenager was going to be put to death for accidentally tripping into a flower bed?

 

[Mojochi]

You think it's fair that a teenager was going to be put to death for accidentally tripping into a flower bed?

no... probably just Wesley lol

 

[Gul Sengosts]

Yes, again, just Wesley.

 

[ralfy]

Might have to do in some cases with the needs of the many.