When Did We Die?
- Thread starter RobertScorpio
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I honestly feel the introduction of Seven of Nine is what really killed it. It was covered in the mainstream press so heavily it came off as a desperate act to save a franchise, and a struggling network. Sure we had some (a few) good stories from her character, and it turned out stiff ol' "Seven Niney" was played by a capable actress, but in the end it was a T-N-A play to get ratings that overshadowed everything Star Trek is and was. I know that there's many sexy characters in Star Trek, but the stiletto heel sportin' ex-borg was like Barbarella on viagra (Wait, what? Does that make sense?) Anyway, her character was often crowbarred into many stories, and Seven of Nine arc episodes often covered already heavily traveled ground by previous Trek scripts featuring Data, Odo, and even Spock. It was a mockery and it cheapened the show in the minds of the mass audience. Most Trekkers embraced her, but in the eye of the average observer I think it made Star Trek into a joke again, and turned Trek fans back into pathetic nerds.
As far as the passing of Roddenberry, I think his influence was gone by season two of TNG... his vision left to others ever since.
As far as the passing of Roddenberry, I think his influence was gone by season two of TNG... his vision left to others ever since.
I think there's some merit to the oversaturation theory, while there are three CSI series and two L&O shows, they don't have comic books, books, magazines, movies and toys as well, Star Trek had all of that since Paramount wanted the milk Star Trek for all it was worth. Still people had gotten alittle tired of Star Trek after TNG ended and it showed as many fans turned to other shows after TNG ended.
Sorry, Enterprise in combo with Nemesis.
Abrams realized that without popular engagement, there is no spoon.
Abrams realized that without popular engagement, there is no spoon.
We Died after Insurrection and the end of Enterprise. Thanks again, Berman and Braga for shooting us in the heart.
And thank you, JJ, for being a paramedic and bringing us back to life.
And thank you, JJ, for being a paramedic and bringing us back to life.
Who really cares what the masses think, after all?
As long as we like it, who cares if everyone else does?
Trek should be on cable. They can do what they like there, and not worry too much about popularity or ratings. Trek can be cerebral and thought provoking again.
As long as we like it, who cares if everyone else does?
Trek should be on cable. They can do what they like there, and not worry too much about popularity or ratings. Trek can be cerebral and thought provoking again.
^ THIS ONE IS EXTREMELY CORRECT.
Because they'll never make it for us - there aren't enough Trek fans to make a TV series or movie profitable. Never have been, really - they always need to appeal to a broader audience.
Trek continued to be popular and in fact to grow a bit more in popularity after Roddenberry's death - this isn't a mass movement, and successful entertainment rarely has much to do with some philosophical "vision." And, of course, Abrams's version of Trek is the most successful movie in the franchise.
Seven hundred episodes of Star Trek, regardless of quality, are just a lot more than most people have any interest in watching. Any good cop show can reach a much larger audience than a science fiction series.
Time to trade in my Kirk shirt for a T.J. Hooker uniform, right?
Nah. I'll stick with what I like and let the heavens fall.
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A
Amaris
Guest
Bingo.
If I want to see my favorite show, I have to get Joe Schmuck and Billy Ray Bob living next door to watch it too. The more people watch it, the better the ratings, the better the ratings, the more advertisers want to jump on, which means more advertising dollars, which means more money for the network, which leads to the producers of the show getting to continue producing shows, and the cycle continues. Devoted fans don't get to watch their show if revenues aren't backing it up. When revenues fall too far, well it's time to pack up and leave town, no matter what a smattering of fans think, because your opinions do not matter anymore in a business model that is saturated with other shows willing to step in and take your favorite show's place.
J.
Not too long ago, I remember someone doing a bar chart over the entire span of Trek's existence that graphically showed all the merchandising (books, vids, toys, games, etc.) throughout the years that quite staggeringly shows Trek's rise and fall. I wish I could find it again. Maybe there's an update reflecting the new movie's success.
Update: found this - http://io9.com/5347631/at-last-a-graph-that-explains-scifi-tv-after-star-trek
and this, thanks to SquiggyFM: http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l245/squiggyfm/TBBS/1z93yb.jpg
Still can't find that other one. Maybe someone else knows where it is.
Update: found this - http://io9.com/5347631/at-last-a-graph-that-explains-scifi-tv-after-star-trek
and this, thanks to SquiggyFM: http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l245/squiggyfm/TBBS/1z93yb.jpg
Still can't find that other one. Maybe someone else knows where it is.
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I love that second chart!
Of course TNG dwarfs the other shows, but I find it Interesting that DS9's pilot was the highest rated of any of any of them. I was also suprised that DS9 had slightly more viewers over it's run than VOY, I thought it was the other way around.
I think the coolest, and most depressing thing, is looking at those numbers for the pilot episode's ratings. By the time of Enterprise, it's obvious that no one cared. It barely managed to get the rating of a average DS9 episode.
Of course TNG dwarfs the other shows, but I find it Interesting that DS9's pilot was the highest rated of any of any of them. I was also suprised that DS9 had slightly more viewers over it's run than VOY, I thought it was the other way around.
I think the coolest, and most depressing thing, is looking at those numbers for the pilot episode's ratings. By the time of Enterprise, it's obvious that no one cared. It barely managed to get the rating of a average DS9 episode.
Mojo is what you gots, JustKate.Well, that's nice. It's always been fun for me, and what the heck is "mojo," anyway?
BS you don't need Roddenberry or any one person to have their vision remain it's a legacy much bigger than he was and it's immortal unlike him. I sure wouldn't want any franchise to just be under one guy forever and ever look at what happened to Star Wars with Mr. Lucas and Trek with the killer B's people need to learn when to call it quits and just collect action figure revenue and let somebody else be creative.Anji said:
I'd say things started to go downhill at the end of the 90's with DS9 off the air you could see B&B's mismanagement of the franchise with Voyager and Insurrection not being up to snuff.
Time to trade in my Kirk shirt for a T.J. Hooker uniform, right?
Nah. I'll stick with what I like and let the heavens fall.
The point is not that you should. The point is that there are a lot more of "them" than of us - always have been and there's no evidence or trend to suggest that it will change.
Any good cop show can reach a much larger audience than a science fiction series.
BTW, I didn't say Hooker was a good cop show.
Captain Randy Hall wrote:
>>Time to trade in my Kirk shirt for a T.J. Hooker uniform, right?
Nah. I'll stick with what I like and let the heavens fall.<<
Dennis wrote:
>>The point is not that you should. The point is that there are a lot more of "them" than of us - always have been and there's no evidence or trend to suggest that it will change.<<
Uh, OK. I like my share of cop shows, too. But I'll take my science fiction from the top of my list.
>>Any good cop show can reach a much larger audience than a science fiction series.<<
And a cop show is hugely cheaper with no alien prosthetics or warp drive starships.
>>BTW, I didn't say Hooker was a good cop show.<<
I was comparing Shatner roles: Kirk or Hooker. I could never watch Hooker because I kept expecting Spock to step in and say, "Captain, you've enjoyed your research into 20th century law enforcement methods, but it's time to go back to the Enterprise." And Shatner would pick up his communicator and say "Two to beam up" and that would be the end of the series...
Trek lives long and prospers....
>>Time to trade in my Kirk shirt for a T.J. Hooker uniform, right?
Nah. I'll stick with what I like and let the heavens fall.
<<Dennis wrote:
>>The point is not that you should. The point is that there are a lot more of "them" than of us - always have been and there's no evidence or trend to suggest that it will change.<<
Uh, OK. I like my share of cop shows, too. But I'll take my science fiction from the top of my list.
>>Any good cop show can reach a much larger audience than a science fiction series.<<
And a cop show is hugely cheaper with no alien prosthetics or warp drive starships.
>>BTW, I didn't say Hooker was a good cop show.
<<I was comparing Shatner roles: Kirk or Hooker. I could never watch Hooker because I kept expecting Spock to step in and say, "Captain, you've enjoyed your research into 20th century law enforcement methods, but it's time to go back to the Enterprise." And Shatner would pick up his communicator and say "Two to beam up" and that would be the end of the series...
Trek lives long and prospers....
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RobertScorpio
Pariah
Captain Randy Hall wrote:
>>Time to trade in my Kirk shirt for a T.J. Hooker uniform, right?
Nah. I'll stick with what I like and let the heavens fall.
Dennis wrote:
>>The point is not that you should. The point is that there are a lot more of "them" than of us - always have been and there's no evidence or trend to suggest that it will change.<<
Uh, OK. I like my share of cop shows, too. But I'll take my science fiction from the top of my list.
>>Any good cop show can reach a much larger audience than a science fiction series.<<
And a cop show is hugely cheaper with no alien prosthetics or warp drive starships.
>>BTW, I didn't say Hooker was a good cop show.
I was comparing Shatner roles: Kirk or Hooker. I could never watch Hooker because I kept expecting Spock to step in and say, "Captain, you've enjoyed your research into 20th century law enforcement methods, but it's time to go back to the Enterprise. And Shatner would pick up his communicator and say "Two to beam up" and that would be the end of the series...
Trek lives long and prospers....
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I bet, even on a percentage level, there have been more 'quality' cop shows than there have been scifi shows.
Rob
Trek certainly did experience a surge in popularity in the early to mid-nineties(Not to mention in 1986 when TVH was released), but it seemed like it kind of dropped off sometime around 1996 or 1997, as far as the mainstream is concerned.
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