When did Trek fandom start changing?

[Phantom]

I've seen the rise of some new types of Trek fans and the changing of some of the old ones. Examples include the Prime/JJ split, the attitudes expressed in the "Star Trek and Liberalism" thread, etc.

Is it simply a result of the times that we live in that Trek fans would also become "darker and edgier"? Or is there something else at work?

 

[C.E. Evans]

It really started changing shortly after TOS began.

 

[BillJ]

Is it simply a result of the times that we live in that Trek fans would also become "darker and edgier"?

Speaking as primarily an original Star Trek fan, I always found Trek "dark and edgy" for the time in which it was made.

 

[ManOnTheWave]

It really started changing shortly after TOS began.

/thread.

The first aired episode was "The Man Trap." Derided by TV critics, even members of the cast felt the episode wasn't representative of the show.

Is it simply a result of the times that we live in that Trek fans would also become "darker and edgier"?

Speaking as primarily an original Star Trek fan, I always found Trek "dark and edgy" for the time in which it was made.

Sure. Many of the episodes had a b movie horror aspect to them. Loved it as a kid. It's one quality I don't think any Trek since has managed or even really tried to capture.

 

[fireproof78]

I think there is always a shift in attitude contingent upon societal context and response to new material produced.

As a quick example, my dad (like others I know) was alive when TOS first aired and had some episodes taped on to VHS when that became possible. He enjoys TOS, enjoys the TOS films and the Abrams films because they are based upon something he knows and enjoys.

He also has not seen a frame of TNG or any other Trek post TOS and could care less about it. Another friend of mine, who is about the same age as my dad, has a similar attitude.

I honestly don't think it is ever as simple as Abrams versus Prime, or whatever the battle of the week is. If TrekBBS and its ilk had been around, we would have had GR versus Meyer threads going, and the argument that TWOK was not "true Trek." (and there is an argument to be made there).

Fandom is not a simple concept because it is an emotional argument at its base, as is most entertainment choices. In my observations and experiences with different fan groups there is a lot of emotional investment and that can't simply be argued away. It's emotional at its core and can be very personal because of that.

Has fandom changed? Probably, but so has society and technology. There is far more exposure to people who don't share the same opinion than ever before, and Star Trek is no exception. I think the reaction is to a challenge to opinions that may have gone unchallenged for a while, due to lack of exposure.

Or maybe it's just the Internet.

Edit: Also, "darker and edgier?" Um, I personally don't think it gets much darker that TMP's "transporter accident" or Ceti eels in TWOK *shudders*

 

[Nerys Myk]

Is it simply a result of the times that we live in that Trek fans would also become "darker and edgier"?

Speaking as primarily an original Star Trek fan, I always found Trek "dark and edgy" for the time in which it was made.

I'd need some examples of Trek fans being "dark and edgy" to understand what the OP means. Obviously people get different things from Trek. There are tech fans, military fans, shippers, SF fans and just straight up Trek fans. (To name but a few) So there have always been "splitters".

You're right about the show being dark and edgy in its own way. There was no shortage of violent death from Salt Vampires, Hortas, exploding rocks and alien weaponry. Kirk lost several girl friends and family members to violence. Entire starship crews, colonies and planets have been wiped out. So McCoy was right when he said, "Space is death and disease wrapped in darkness and silence".

 

[stardream]

Change from what to what exactly? Not sure I understand the question.

 

[Greg Cox]

Is it simply a result of the times that we live in that Trek fans would also become "darker and edgier"?

Speaking as primarily an original Star Trek fan, I always found Trek "dark and edgy" for the time in which it was made.

I'd need some examples of Trek fans being "dark and edgy" to understand what the OP means. Obviously people get different things from Trek. There are tech fans, military fans, shippers, SF fans and just straight up Trek fans. (To name but a few) So there have always been "splitters".

You're right about the show being dark and edgy in its own way. There was no shortage of violent death from Salt Vampires, Hortas, exploding rocks and alien weaponry. Kirk lost several girl friends and family members to violence. Entire starship crews, colonies and planets have been wiped out. So McCoy was right when he said, "Space is death and disease wrapped in darkness and silence".

Exactly. TOS, especially in its first season was not adverse to horror and tragedy, and many of the early eps ended on a somber, downbeat note. Think Vina, Gary Mitchell, Charlie X, Edith Keeler, Matt Decker, Lenore Karidian,"Balance of Terror," "What are Little Girls Made Of," etc.

TOS was never as "utopian" as people sometimes pretend.

 

[Kor]

Change from what to what exactly? Not sure I understand the question.

Some people have fond memories of a golden era in which all Trek fans were 100% united, agreeing on everything and accepting every single episode as infallible gospel, and joining hands to sing Kumbaya.

I'm not sure such a time ever really existed.

Kor

 

[Forbin]

Fandom started changing as soon as they realized the basement stunk of body odor. So one by one, they started, occasionally, bathing and changing clothes.

 

[Greg Cox]

Change from what to what exactly? Not sure I understand the question.

Some people have fond memories of a golden era in which all Trek fans were 100% united, agreeing on everything and accepting every single episode as infallible gospel, and joining hands to sing Kumbaya.

Don't forget the K/S slash fiction.

 

[ManOnTheWave]

Fandom started changing as soon as they realized the basement stunk of body odor. So one by one, they started, occasionally, bathing and changing clothes.

Yet that mythical basement still smells of feet.

 

[T'Girl]

... the attitudes expressed in the "Star Trek and Liberalism" thread, etc.

Did you have something specfic in mind, other than fan's politics are pretty much across the political spectrum?

 

[thumbtack]

June, 1973.

The trekkers declare the trekkies to be childlike stereotypes who are embarrassing all of fandom and preventing Star Trek from being taken seriously by the public.

Fortunately, the internet does not yet exist.

 

[Trekkin]

The second that the show managed to pick up more than one fan?

As for 'darker and edgier', I started lurking in Trek boards around the release of Nemesis, which was the tail-end of VOY/DS9 and the beginning of ENT. Nowadays everyone is peachy by comparison.

And there's really no such divide between Prime/Nu Fans. If theyre posting here, most likely the hypothetical someone has has seen and liked some of the pre-Abrams Trek. And I'm not even touching the 'liberalism' thing.

 

[hux]

Is it simply a result of the times that we live in that Trek fans would also become "darker and edgier"? Or is there something else at work?

Are you talking about DS9 and the fact that it explored darker themes than Trek had previously done before (including greater conflict). Wasn't Roddenberry's death the catalyst for that? They finally decided to move away from the shiney, clean utopia where we do things to better ourselves, towards a grittier, less morally black and white, less sterilised world in DS9.

It needed to happen. The positive, optimistic world created by Roddenberry is still there and is a very well established part of the overall universe but a move towards something slightly bleaker was welcome. It had to evolve and become more complex than it was.

 

[MacLeod]

It really started changing shortly after TOS began.

I would tend to agree, it doesn't matter what the fandom is it is constantly changing as new fans come in.

 

[Trekkin]

Is it simply a result of the times that we live in that Trek fans would also become "darker and edgier"? Or is there something else at work?

Are you talking about DS9 and the fact that it explored darker themes than Trek had previously done before (including greater conflict). Wasn't Roddenberry's death the catalyst for that? They finally decided to move away from the shiney, clean utopia where we do things to better ourselves, towards a grittier, less morally black and white, less sterilised world in DS9.

It needed to happen. The positive, optimistic world created by Roddenberry is still there and is a very well established part of the overall universe but a move towards something slightly bleaker was welcome. It had to evolve and become more complex than it was.

I have a feeling Phantom is referring to us. Hence, "Trek fans would become 'darker and edgier'?"

 

[T'Girl]

the shiney, clean utopia where we do things to better ourselves

Spock: "the planned communities, the programming, the sterilized, artfully balanced atmospheres."

 

[Therin of Andor]

Fandom started changing as soon as they realized the basement stunk of body odor. So one by one, they started, occasionally, bathing and changing clothes.

Change clothes? Oh that's easy!

"Tristan, you will change clothes with Robert. Simon, you will change clothes with Jack..."