When did the Pon Farr cycle become seven years?

[johnnybear]

I always remember that the Pon Farr ritual was mentioned being once every seven years in The Cloud Minders as that whole moment was always excised from the BBC screenings of the series! Not sure if they ever reinserted it but for myself the first time I ever saw it was when I bought the DVDs!
JB

 

[Timewalker]

I always remember that the Pon Farr ritual was mentioned being once every seven years in The Cloud Minders as that whole moment was always excised from the BBC screenings of the series! Not sure if they ever reinserted it but for myself the first time I ever saw it was when I bought the DVDs!
JB

I never got why that was even mentioned in this episode. The Spock/Droxine interaction was completely OOC for Spock. He only told Kirk and McCoy about it under duress, but tells a strange, vapid-brained woman about it in casual conversation?

Not buying it.

 

[Commishsleer]

Look maybe Spoc

I never got why that was even mentioned in this episode. The Spock/Droxine interaction was completely OOC for Spock. He only told Kirk and McCoy about it under duress, but tells a strange, vapid-brained woman about it in casual conversation?

Not buying it.

I'd like to hear the conversation that lead up to Spock's mention of Pon Farr. Was Droxine asking for a roll in the hay, a marriage proposal. And what was Spock saying with his reply? - sex only every 7 years, rough sex every 7 years, I'm too busy on the Enterprise and I might be away in 7 years time or how can I get rid of this dimwit without a diplomatic incident?

 

[Warped9]

Who knows? Spock is half human so maybe he concocted the whole yarn just to put her off.

 

[johnnybear]

Or maybe Spock felt he was feeling the pinges of abstinence and the seven year cycle was up and Droxine fitted the bill as she was making up to the Vulcan instead of Captain Kirk whom her Father thought she was interested in!
JB

 

[JonnyQuest037]

And then you have to factor in every Vulcan has to do this. There must be times when hundreds, if not thousands of Vulcans overlap. DO they all have to go home for sex?

The periodic mass orgies are why Vulcans are so secretive and isolationist.

My old theory was that, given the line about Spock hoping it wouldn't happen (presumably because he's half human, and not because he's just that cool), he was far overdue and that influenced T'Pring's decision to take a lover.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I believe as well. His human half threw off the typical timeline, and it took so long to happen that Spock assumed it would never happen.

Spock saying he hoped he would be spared “this” can be interpreted two ways. We can interpret it as he had somehow avoided experiencing pon farr until we saw it in “Amok Time.” Or we can interpret it as him saying he has not been able to avoid it including previous times.

To me there's not much point to the story of "Amok Time" if it's not Spock's very first experience with Pon Farr. Not only does it make the story less dramatic, it makes Spock look really slow on the uptake to not recognize the symptoms if he'd been through it before.

 

[Nyotarules]

Even D.C. Fontana explained years ago that Vulcans were able to engage in relations at any time. But the Pon Farr was when they were absolutely driven do so, accompanied by all the old mysterious rituals and whatnot.


(source: Captains' Logs: The Unauthorized Complete Trek Voyages, as quoted at Memory Alpha)

Kor

The Ent writers continued this stupid 7 year cycle as well in the Fusion episode

Well in ENT, T'Pol was able to have "relations" any old time she wanted but she was female so maybe there are different rules for different genders.
In VOY, the two males Vulcans had pon farr every 7 years and didn't have to go home to Vulcan and could ummm didn't have to consummate.
Spock didn't seem to have a partner in the movie years so what happened there?

He had Kirk or he beat up McCoy every 7 years instead

Having said that, why couldn't Spock just age out of it? Can you see old man Sarek in the Plak Tow?

VOY Tuvok stated Vulcan libido increased with age... old Sarek was a sex machine

T'Pau's prominent position implied some kind of matriarchal structure in Vulcan society, but talk of T'Pring becoming "the property of the victor" contradicted that idea. But then, Vulcan culture and society has a number of seeming inconsistencies or contradictions.
Kor

Not really if it is the punishment for calling the challenge in the first place. If Spock had called the challenge he would be the property of T'Pring if he won it. Calling the challenge seems to be a rare thing, due to the social stigma involved.

 

[johnnybear]

Spock went through all that trouble for nothing! He was anxious, aggressive and disobedient to his Captain and then he went deep into the Plak Tow (Blood Fever) killed his Captain or so he thought and then released T'Pring from her vows! Boy and I thought I had it bad!!!
JB

 

[Qonundrum]

It was originally "every year" and known as the "Ponn Neer" cycle. Then it went far.

At least they didn't do it neener-neener.

 

[Voodoowoman2]

The purpose of Vulcan logic began IMHO as a way to contain the passions of Pon Farr. Vulcans do not readily select mates from other species because they are not trained to handle the Pon Farr. I truly believe that between two Vulcan partners the Pon Farr becomes merely a rather passionless intercourse because the sane partner takes control. The Vulcan mind is ruthlessly trained to think "logically" This is not Reason as we humans think of it and many fans do or Plato did, but literally mathematical calculations or logical theorems constantly going though their minds to keep control.
Vulcans consider the free flowing human mind to be chaos. Image that. Stop for a moment and think about your brain when you are resting. Your mind drifts, fantasizes, plays. I don't think the Vulcan brain does. This is due to training and I believe it is damaging. Vulcans are terrified of their massive mental powers to mind control others and masses like Sybok. T'Pol tells us that Vulcans dismiss the subconscious mind. Think about that. Our subconscious is our creativity. This is why humans made advances by leaps and bounds in warp technology in Enterprise while the Vulcans stood by with their mouths dropping.
Spock shares his katra with Christine Chapel in one episode. I don't know how long it lasted. She found the experience beautiful. Spock is such a child inside that being in Chapel's feminine mind was just chaos to him. Spock is not creative. He obeys the rules to the letter. Even the older Spock of TNG is still wrapped around the idea of machine like perfection in Data. Spock is sad.

 

[Voodoowoman2]

At no point in "Amok Time" is it said that Pon Farr renews, and certainly not every seven years. What is said is that T'Pring and Spock were seven when they were betrothed (with the strong implication that they have not seen each other since).

Interestingly, in "Spockanalia", released 9-1-67, fan writers are talking about a seven year Pon Farr cycle, which now seems to be widespread, perhaps even canon.

So, when did that happen, and was it always the intention?

Beg pardon? Spock tells Kirk "Every seven years we are driven by forces we cannot control to return home, take a mate or die in the attempt."

 

[Mytran]

Beg pardon? Spock tells Kirk "Every seven years we are driven by forces we cannot control to return home, take a mate or die in the attempt."

Not exactly:

SPOCK: It is the pon farr. The time of mating. There are precedents in nature, Captain. The giant eelbirds of Regulus Five, once each eleven years they must return to the caverns where they hatched. On your Earth, the salmon. They must return to that one stream where they were born, to spawn or die in trying.
KIRK: But you're not a fish, Mister Spock. You're
SPOCK: No. Nor am I a man. I'm a Vulcan. I'd hoped I would be spared this, but the ancient drives are too strong. Eventually, they catch up with us, and we are driven by forces we cannot control to return home and take a wife. Or die.
​

The gist of what you said is indeed there, but explicitly no reference to 7 years.

 

[Warped9]

The seven year cycle was referenced much later in “The Cloud Minders.”

Now given the shroud of mystery around pon far it’s not inconceivable that rumours and fallacies would be passed around as in, “I’ve heard that…”

Spock could have been letting Droxine believe whatever she heard about a seven year cycle. We know Spock is not above deception in his own manner as witnessed before in the series. Droxine was obviously fishing to see if she could interest Spock while he put her off gracefully in letting her believe he was unreachable outside of pon far every seven years.

 

[johnnybear]

Maybe Pon Farr is much easier to deal with at a younger age? Perhaps Spock was able to control it until it began to take over his mind when he reached his early thirties? (Which is still young for the adult Vulcan male) but also that it had been supplanted into his psyche at the age of seven with T'Pring as a sort of possible future bride. Like he said more than a betrothal but less than a marriage even though he said she was his wife to the bridge crew of the Enterprise!
JB

 

[Commishsleer]

If you never saw "Amok Time" and just saw "Cloud Minders" you would be wondering the heck what Droxine and Spock were talking about. Even now its about as clear as the "women can't be captains" in "Turnabout Intruder". If the movies and VOY had not expanded upon it I think we could have forgotten about the 7 years thing.
At the time were Spock's revelations in Amok Time controversial - mate or die? That's pretty racy I would think or was the 60s just the starting point for the sexual revolution? If Nurse Chapel actually slept with Spock would the audience have looked down on her? I know Uhura said she was no maiden.

 

[Warped9]

If the movies and VOY had not expanded upon it I think we could have forgotten about the 7 years thing.

Since I ignore most of the films as well as VOY and ENT and everything since I have found peace of mind.

 

[plynch]

I wonder if the seven years interval is so predators’ DNA can’t time it out and have a bloom of predators the same years as there is a bloom of Vulcans. Like cicadas, y’know?

 

[1001001]

"A Bloom of Vulcans"

 

[johnnybear]

I like the Vulcan mating ritual of Ponn Farr. It fits in with what we know about them and how mysterious they are compared to humans and being taking over with logical thinking 97% of the time we get to see the remaining 3% and them in a non too clear thinking state!
JB