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When did the Monster Maroons replace the Pyjamas?
- Thread starter Admiral Archer
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In my mind, Kirk has a second five-year mission after TMP, and they have the TMP Uniforms (or some variant). TMP always felt like a separate period from the rest of the TOS Movie Era, so my mind thinks it should be visually different in some way to reflect that. So I picture the TMP Uniforms and everything they encounter looking more '70s in general.
TMP is 2272 or 2273, depending on when in 2270 the first five-year mission ended. So, in my head-canon, the TWOK Uniforms show up in 2277 or 2278. If I have to pick one, I'll go with 2278.
Jack Crusher still has a TWOK-variant in 2349. But in flashbacks to his death in 2354, they have TNG S1 Uniforms. In the flashbacks to the Stargazer, in 2355, they also have TNG S1 Uniforms. To keep it neat, I go with the TWOK Uniforms were replaced with TNG Uniforms in 2350. Starfleet wanted to change its image right in the middle of the century.
2278-2349 is what I go with for the Monster Maroons.
TMP is 2272 or 2273, depending on when in 2270 the first five-year mission ended. So, in my head-canon, the TWOK Uniforms show up in 2277 or 2278. If I have to pick one, I'll go with 2278.
Jack Crusher still has a TWOK-variant in 2349. But in flashbacks to his death in 2354, they have TNG S1 Uniforms. In the flashbacks to the Stargazer, in 2355, they also have TNG S1 Uniforms. To keep it neat, I go with the TWOK Uniforms were replaced with TNG Uniforms in 2350. Starfleet wanted to change its image right in the middle of the century.
2278-2349 is what I go with for the Monster Maroons.
I agree with the idea that a post-TMP five year mission in the TMP unis took place, but also agree that increased hostility from the Klingons brought on by the V'Ger incident caused Starfleet to re-evaluate and introduce the Monster Maroons so the Klingons wouldn't think Starfleet had gone weak. Enterprise then officially switches over when they get back. Headcanon can be a good thing.
True dat. All we know is that TMP took place in 2273, and the Bozeman disappeared in 2278. So it must have been sometime in between.
The TMP unis may have been introduced while Enterprise was on their five year mission. There is no canon explanation for why they didn't mention that they were new, after all.
I think with the jacket would make a good dress uniform and without would be a decent duty uniform.
2273. Right after Kirk said, "Out there... Thataway." Scotty just beamed the new uniforms onto everyone's bodies.
More seriously, I imagine that the switchover occurred sometime around 2277 or 2278, after the refit Enterprise completed its post-TMP 5YM. But perhaps Starfleet made the change even before Kirk & company returned to Earth.
This panel is from Marvel Comics' Star Trek: Untold Voyages #5 (July 1998), BTW. Written by my buddy Glenn Greenberg, with art by Michael Collins and Keith Williams. Each issue of the miniseries took place in a different year of the post-TMP 5YM, so this issue was depicting the very end of their mission.
2273. Right after Kirk said, "Out there... Thataway." Scotty just beamed the new uniforms onto everyone's bodies.
More seriously, I imagine that the switchover occurred sometime around 2277 or 2278, after the refit Enterprise completed its post-TMP 5YM. But perhaps Starfleet made the change even before Kirk & company returned to Earth.
This panel is from Marvel Comics' Star Trek: Untold Voyages #5 (July 1998), BTW. Written by my buddy Glenn Greenberg, with art by Michael Collins and Keith Williams. Each issue of the miniseries took place in a different year of the post-TMP 5YM, so this issue was depicting the very end of their mission.
This is the panel which inspired me to post this thread. I found it on google images and wondered what the source was. Thanks for the info! Makes me really wanna check out this comic series.
It's worth reading! I don't think it was ever collected in trade, but I'm pretty sure you can find the five issues for not too much.This is the panel which inspired me to post this thread. I found it on google images and wondered what the source was. Thanks for the info! Makes me really wanna check out this comic series.
When I was looking for it not long after it first came out in the late '90s, it was considered a "hot" book, so I overpaid for it by a LOT ($5 per issue!). I doubt you'll find anyone asking that much for it now.
Its not impossible for the TMP uniforms to be the definitive Starfleet uniform for the 2270s. While the Monster maroons start rolling out in the late 2270s. I’d imagine it would take time for the Monster Maroons to be adopted fleetwide. And the TMP uniforms disappear completely by 2280.
I seem to recall in ST6 (haha Nicholas Meyer), several closets, drawers and lockers full of clean and soiled uniforms aboard the Enterprise so this funny theory of disintegrating and 3D-printing clothing does not fit, at least in that movie
Perhaps Captain Kirk preferred it that way? He might have ordered the crew to go old-school.
Kind of like how Pike ordered the removal of the holographic communication system.
Kind of like how Pike ordered the removal of the holographic communication system.
Although I loathe the JJtrek films they did show the TOS uniforms could work on the big screen. It was a matter of hue and materiel. But in the mid to late 1970s the temptation to think big with a feature film budget was too hard to resist. That and the perception being the TOS designs were too simplistic and the colours too strong for the big screen. But the TMP designs were not that much more detailed and somewhat muted colours could have been used. In 2009 nostalgia was stronger and sufficient time had passed to allow a less judgemental perception of the TOS designs.
I suspect a more likely reason they went with the ugly maroons was partly to signal a departure from the thinking of TMP and also to cover the changing body forms of the aging cast, particularly James Doohan. Maybe in the far future most people will stay trim and generally fit longer as they age, but in the real world of today lots of people gain weight and don’t stay trim as they age. Throughout the subsequent films Doohan, and Shatner, gained weight and no way they could have looked right iin lightweight close fitting garments.
The TOS and TMP designs work for people who are young and/or fit, but not for anyone gaining extra weight.
In continuity it’s hard to imagine an organization, like Starfleet, abandoning a design soon after introducing it. But lets look at precedent.
There was an obvious uniform change between the events of WNMHGB and the rest of TOS. Thats likely over a matter of months to maybe a year or so. And we have no idea when “The Cage” era uniforms came into use.
But the TOS designs are gone by the time of TMP. That changeover is sometime between the end of the 5-year mission and the events of TMP. That gives the TOS designs a 5-7 or 8 year life span. It could be safe to assume at least a similar life span before the TMP design was swapped out.
TWOK is referenced as happening about fifteen years since the events of “Space Seed.” So 3 years before the end of the 5-year mission + 2-3 years before TMP + lets say another 5 years for a new 5-year mission = about 10-11 years. So the maroon design could be introduced a few months to maybe 5 years before the events of TWOK.
I suspect a more likely reason they went with the ugly maroons was partly to signal a departure from the thinking of TMP and also to cover the changing body forms of the aging cast, particularly James Doohan. Maybe in the far future most people will stay trim and generally fit longer as they age, but in the real world of today lots of people gain weight and don’t stay trim as they age. Throughout the subsequent films Doohan, and Shatner, gained weight and no way they could have looked right iin lightweight close fitting garments.
The TOS and TMP designs work for people who are young and/or fit, but not for anyone gaining extra weight.
In continuity it’s hard to imagine an organization, like Starfleet, abandoning a design soon after introducing it. But lets look at precedent.
There was an obvious uniform change between the events of WNMHGB and the rest of TOS. Thats likely over a matter of months to maybe a year or so. And we have no idea when “The Cage” era uniforms came into use.
But the TOS designs are gone by the time of TMP. That changeover is sometime between the end of the 5-year mission and the events of TMP. That gives the TOS designs a 5-7 or 8 year life span. It could be safe to assume at least a similar life span before the TMP design was swapped out.
TWOK is referenced as happening about fifteen years since the events of “Space Seed.” So 3 years before the end of the 5-year mission + 2-3 years before TMP + lets say another 5 years for a new 5-year mission = about 10-11 years. So the maroon design could be introduced a few months to maybe 5 years before the events of TWOK.
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That's what the TMP uniforms needed, bellbottoms and platform shoes!
In the novel 'Wagon Train to the Stars', there's a flashback set three months before 31st-Oct-2272, (so 31st-July-2272), where Kirk asks that the crew of the Enterprise be issued the new uniforms a year before they're introduced to the rest of the fleet. The whole timeline of the novel is wonky - It's set three years after the Lost Years novel 'Traitor Winds', which runs 14th-Dec-2269 to 1st-Jan-2270, with TMP set in 2271 and this novel set a year after the events of TMP. That would mean that the new uniforms were introduced almost a year or two after TMP - yet the dialogue and setting set it post second FYM (2278-2279), with Spock a Captain and Kirk an Admiral at the Academy. Personally, I tend to think that the uniforms were gradually introduced to Starfleet starting in 2277 with them being issued at Starfleet Academy and local ships, then issued to ships that were farther out, or returning from extended missions, like Kirk and the Enterprise, with the changeover being completed sometime in 2279-80.
Muted colors seemed popular in 70s SF.
I don't know about that - Logan's Run had some colorful costumes, and Buck Rogers was very 70s disco inspired. I'd throw in U.F.O. and Dr Who as well.
I just realized that U.FO. was bright and colorful while Space: 1999 went for a more muted color palate.
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