How did Marcus intend on Kirk firing those torpedoes? Khan removed the fuel in order to put them in there, so I can't see how they'd fire.
When did the Admiral lose control.. SPOILERS
- Thread starter TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME
- Start date
I thought the fuel was for the blowing up on impact part. I assume the Enterprise itself does the firing.
Ah I guess when I hear fuel, I think in terms of propulsion. I would have used the term "warhead" instead of "fuel" then if I were the writers.
It is bad stuff in the torpedo. SPECIAL bad stuff. That's all you need to know.
Marcus never had control of Khan, period. Khan allowed Marcus to believe he had Khan under his thumb. I'm sure Khan was plotting all along to take control of the inventions/hardware he designed/built and launch his own war to take over Earth. (Think Ivan Vanko and Justin Hammer from Iron Man 2.)
This is a problem I have with the movie. On the one hand I did enjoy it; On the other, I'm not getting paid to polish up a half assed screenplay.
Agreed, I don't think Marcus had anything to do with the bombing of the Section 31 facility at all... that was all Khanand his quest for revenge against Marcus. I think Khan was perfectly content to do Marcus' "bidding" and develop superweapons which Khan would eventually gain control of when he got his crew thawed out.
I think Marcus probably realize somewhere along the way that in no way could he allow Khan access to his crew and that Khan was likely playing him and would use the same superweapons he built to conquer Starfleet/Earth. So Khan destroys the complex then tries to kill Marcus and escapes to Khronos.
Also, while Khan's monologue in the brig about his crew was certainly heartfelt, I have no doubt it was all a ruse to play off of Kirk's compassion and to be able to eventually gain access to the Admiral's Dreadnought which he clearly knew was coming.
Yancy
IDW Comics comfirms that there will be a four-part prequel series exploring the character of John Harrison, set to be released in the fall. so it's more than likely we'll see what happened with John Harrison pre-into darkness.
long post. Sorry.
I figure that Khan was playing Marcus all along, while allowing Marcus to think Marcus was in control.
Khan put his people in the torpedoes before any of this action starts. He knows they're still alive at that point.
Khan declares war on Marcus, via Star Fleet and Section 31, to get Marcus' attention. OR, this is part of Marcus' plan, to cover up the loss of Khan's people, Section 31 in general, or as the first step to start the war with the Klingons.
Khan directly attacks the meeting, knowing that he's going to transport to Kronos, to get Marcus to attack him on Kronos. OR, this is part of Marcus' plan, to further his goal of war with the Klingons by having Khan beam there. Marcus was unhurt, his primary opponent in the admiralty was killed. And Khan seemed to focus on Pike a bit, didn't he, to the point that he didn't see what Kirk was up to?
Khan beams to Kronos. Why? As Uhura says, he's without honor. The Klingons of that time might not have been willing to work with a traitor. By this time, Khan seems to believe his people have been discovered and are dead.
Marcus tells volunteer Kirk to fire all torpedoes at Khan on Kronos and makes sure the Enterprise is stuck in Klingon space, to really start the war. The Vengeance is being prepped (lots of welders coming in at the last minute to finish) for its trip to Kronos. One of two things now:
1) Marcus does not know the torpedoes are missing their fuel and figures Kirk's firing on Khan will destroy Khan and start the war. Marcus wasn't expecting Kirk to go down there and take Khan alive--he was expecting Kirk to fire then get stuck and destroyed, war would be declared, and the Vengeance would win the war just as it starts.
2) Marcus knows the torpedoes have Khan's people and won't fly and figures the Enterprise's destruction by the Klingons is sufficient to start the war, and the destruction of Khan's people by the Klingons is icing on the cake. But again, Kirk did not act as Marcus expected--or did he? Marcus knew Kirk was mentored by Pike, Marcus' rival and a moral man. Marcus may have suspected that Kirk wouldn't fire but that Khan would somehow retrieve his people and attack the Klingons, with backup by the Vengeance, and Section 31 would win the war just as it starts.
Khan learns that the torpedoes are those carrying his people. Change of plans. The Enterprise must be kept safe until he can get his people safely away. Or take over the ship. But then the Vengeance appears. With his people AND the Vengeance, Khan would be unstoppable. Kirk is now in the way of his plans.
I figure that Khan was playing Marcus all along, while allowing Marcus to think Marcus was in control.
Khan put his people in the torpedoes before any of this action starts. He knows they're still alive at that point.
Khan declares war on Marcus, via Star Fleet and Section 31, to get Marcus' attention. OR, this is part of Marcus' plan, to cover up the loss of Khan's people, Section 31 in general, or as the first step to start the war with the Klingons.
Khan directly attacks the meeting, knowing that he's going to transport to Kronos, to get Marcus to attack him on Kronos. OR, this is part of Marcus' plan, to further his goal of war with the Klingons by having Khan beam there. Marcus was unhurt, his primary opponent in the admiralty was killed. And Khan seemed to focus on Pike a bit, didn't he, to the point that he didn't see what Kirk was up to?
Khan beams to Kronos. Why? As Uhura says, he's without honor. The Klingons of that time might not have been willing to work with a traitor. By this time, Khan seems to believe his people have been discovered and are dead.
Marcus tells volunteer Kirk to fire all torpedoes at Khan on Kronos and makes sure the Enterprise is stuck in Klingon space, to really start the war. The Vengeance is being prepped (lots of welders coming in at the last minute to finish) for its trip to Kronos. One of two things now:
1) Marcus does not know the torpedoes are missing their fuel and figures Kirk's firing on Khan will destroy Khan and start the war. Marcus wasn't expecting Kirk to go down there and take Khan alive--he was expecting Kirk to fire then get stuck and destroyed, war would be declared, and the Vengeance would win the war just as it starts.
2) Marcus knows the torpedoes have Khan's people and won't fly and figures the Enterprise's destruction by the Klingons is sufficient to start the war, and the destruction of Khan's people by the Klingons is icing on the cake. But again, Kirk did not act as Marcus expected--or did he? Marcus knew Kirk was mentored by Pike, Marcus' rival and a moral man. Marcus may have suspected that Kirk wouldn't fire but that Khan would somehow retrieve his people and attack the Klingons, with backup by the Vengeance, and Section 31 would win the war just as it starts.
Khan learns that the torpedoes are those carrying his people. Change of plans. The Enterprise must be kept safe until he can get his people safely away. Or take over the ship. But then the Vengeance appears. With his people AND the Vengeance, Khan would be unstoppable. Kirk is now in the way of his plans.
TheCutestofBorg
Lieutenant Junior Grade
The more I think about it the more it seems like this is a direct setup for a 2 movie arc. All they really did with Harrison/Kahn was set him up and give him a small backstory and a reason to have a hatred of Kirk in particular. The real Kahn movie is coming up...
Its odd that Marcus would try to start a war with the Klingons. Wouldn't they have motivation already to go to war with the Romulans? Sure Nero was from the future but did the majority of Starfleet know that? Even than it would not matter, the Romulans would be the real threat.
Starting a war with one planet over the attack of another. Would be like starting a war in Iraq after 911... Ok its absurd but all too realistic....
Starting a war with one planet over the attack of another. Would be like starting a war in Iraq after 911... Ok its absurd but all too realistic....
I'm not so sure, Kirk and the Enterprise are off exploring the galaxy on their 5 year mission and Khan is an ice cube back on Earth. Not exactly a good situation to have the two of them clash in.
I need answers to all of these things. Great summary.
They will meet a villain who, contrived as it is, they need to thaw out Khan to fight.
I think I posted elsewhere, this "five-year mission" is pretty suspicious....
It's the first one ever by Star Fleet, news will likely soon break about the Vengeance, it's likely there will be war with the Klingons in the near future, Star Fleet recently lost a lot of cadets at Vulcan (and Vulcan!), Star Fleet has lost two admirals and possibly a few captains.
I think this is Star Fleet's way of putting the Enterprise crew in "cryo." They're out of the way (won't spill the beans on Section 31), possibly recruiting allies for the Federation, and can return if needed to fight the Klingons--or Khan, because some other stupid git is going to think he can be controlled.
Anybody think of Demolition Man on that part of the plot?
As for critics of this film, comparing it to the original TWoK, I'd rather go with how these characters are written in this timeline. They don't know that Spock died and that, before that, Kirk yelled "Khaaaaaaan!", etc. It's their lives happening, not reruns of the Primes' lives. Kirk and Spock's friendship just got bonded with this, at a very different point in the lives than the Primes' characters.
It's the first one ever by Star Fleet, news will likely soon break about the Vengeance, it's likely there will be war with the Klingons in the near future, Star Fleet recently lost a lot of cadets at Vulcan (and Vulcan!), Star Fleet has lost two admirals and possibly a few captains.
I think this is Star Fleet's way of putting the Enterprise crew in "cryo." They're out of the way (won't spill the beans on Section 31), possibly recruiting allies for the Federation, and can return if needed to fight the Klingons--or Khan, because some other stupid git is going to think he can be controlled.
Anybody think of Demolition Man on that part of the plot?
As for critics of this film, comparing it to the original TWoK, I'd rather go with how these characters are written in this timeline. They don't know that Spock died and that, before that, Kirk yelled "Khaaaaaaan!", etc. It's their lives happening, not reruns of the Primes' lives. Kirk and Spock's friendship just got bonded with this, at a very different point in the lives than the Primes' characters.
TheCutestofBorg
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Yes, I think a variation of this will be the 3rd and final movie for this crew. I think that the Enterprise will be out in its 5 year mission, prob 2-3 years in. The Klingon war is gearing up and somehow Kahn is broken out of his cryo either to be used as a weapon against the Klingons or by someone else. Either way he eventually turns on the Feds again. Resulting in Kirk needing to come back and defeat him...
So did you guys see this: http://trekmovie.com/2013/05/15/tre...fleet-memorandum-on-into-darkness-viral-site/ ?
Apparently it was part of their viral material, and I don't know how accurate it's supposed to be, but if you click on the high res versions of these memos, you can still read the blacked out text. It refers to Harrison working at the Io Construction Facility and that Section 31 was aware at that point of him possibly defecting due to not answering communications, and that they were uncertain of his location. It sounds pretty convincing.
Apparently it was part of their viral material, and I don't know how accurate it's supposed to be, but if you click on the high res versions of these memos, you can still read the blacked out text. It refers to Harrison working at the Io Construction Facility and that Section 31 was aware at that point of him possibly defecting due to not answering communications, and that they were uncertain of his location. It sounds pretty convincing.
The Klingons were likely a more immediate threat, even though there was already a strong justification to attack the Romulans.
As Marcus said, war was inevitable, which suggests the possibility that - like in the prime timeline - there had been various border clashes ongoing for some time. Marcus obviously expected a more militarized Starfleet to be able to defeat the Klingon Empire, at which point he probably would have turned his attention to the Romulans.
