When did Nimoy finally finish Spock's characterization?

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I don't think Spock "arrived." He evolved, and at a certain point during TOS he stopped evolving in a very interesting fashion - mainly when Kirk's dominance on the show was rather forcibly reasserted. Spock became the sidekick with a few quirky mannerisms.

A better question is when the writing for him stopped being interesting - I'd say after "Amok Time," with an honorable mention for "Journey To Babel." He's used effectively in some episodes after that, but the "inner life" that Nimoy has been talking about so much lately in connection with the current Trek movie just wasn't in sharp dramatic focus in episodes like, say, "The Tholian Web." He has a few good scenes there, as one example, but they don't really go far beneath the character's surface.

 

[Chrisisall]

I don't think Spock "arrived." He evolved, and at a certain point during TOS he stopped evolving in a very interesting fashion - mainly when Kirk's dominance on the show was rather forcibly reasserted. Spock became the sidekick with a few quirky mannerisms.

Anyone who doesn't see Spock's character evolve to his pinnical in TMP is a Denebian Slime Devil.

 

[Grant]

For me, the dividing line between the "emotional, smiling, joking" Spock and the reserved logical Spock was probably when Nimoy stopped putting his hands on his hips. I don't know the exact episode but do remember him doing it still as late as "Conscience of the King," "Galileo Seven," and "Shore Leave."

Thnaks for actually answering the question I was asking about---rather than push the thread over to some lame "He never stopped evolving!" direction.

Obviously a character played by the same actor over 40+ years will constantly evolve. I was clearly talking about the smiling, sometimes angry, sometimes shouting Spock of the first season.

And thanks for reminding me of the hands on hip mannerism that he had early on.
He difinately DID do that in Galileo 7---when he found Gaetano. Not Vulcan at all.
Oddly in Galileo 7, it seems like they were saying that he learned the benefits of emotion in certain circumstances, but the Spock of late season 1 & season 2 surely didn't apply much emotion to the decisions he made.

BEWARE POPO BAWA !!!!!

 

[Orcus]

I don't think Spock "arrived." He evolved, and at a certain point during TOS he stopped evolving in a very interesting fashion - mainly when Kirk's dominance on the show was rather forcibly reasserted. Spock became the sidekick with a few quirky mannerisms.

Anyone who doesn't see Spock's character evolve to his pinnical in TMP is a Denebian Slime Devil.

YES! Thank you for mentioning it. After his attempt at Kolinahr failed we saw a very different Spock embarking on a new journey of self-discovery...

 

[KobayashiMaru13]

IMO in the first season, he was still struggling with his emotions: whether to fully embrace his human or vulcan half. that always satisfied my questions about spock's emotional behavior.

plus, at some point he went through a vulcan ritual to purge himself of all emotion. granted, he did not complete it, it did have an effect that did leave him less emotional.

 

[Bertie]

Galileo Seven was pretty crucial, as it set a standard pattern for Spock stories:

1. Spock is put into a situation and starts acting logically.
2. Poked and prodded by those around him, he finally does something illogical/emotional.
3. Whatever illogical/emotional thing Spock does works, thus proving once again, that emotion is better than reason (on Star Trek, anyway).

Whatever the merits of this plot in Galileo Seven, it eventually got old, and furthermore, was one of the reasons why Spock's character became obviously neutered/subordinate relative to Kirk as the show progressed.

One of the best things that Abrams and Company did with nuSpock is to shake up this tired formula, both giving their Vulcans more leeway for emotional expression (but not so human that they cease to be alien and interesting) but also acknowledging that with that comes both the good (romance, standing up for your mother's honor) and the bad (like revenge, loss of control).

 

[plynch]

Galileo Seven was pretty crucial, as it set a standard pattern for Spock stories:

1. Spock is put into a situation and starts acting logically.
2. Poked and prodded by those around him, he finally does something illogical/emotional.
3. Whatever illogical/emotional thing Spock does works, thus proving once again, that emotion is better than reason (on Star Trek, anyway).

Whatever the merits of this plot in Galileo Seven, it eventually got old, and furthermore, was one of the reasons why Spock's character became obviously neutered/subordinate relative to Kirk as the show progressed.

One of the best things that Abrams and Company did with nuSpock is to shake up this tired formula, both giving their Vulcans more leeway for emotional expression (but not so human that they cease to be alien and interesting) but also acknowledging that with that comes both the good (romance, standing up for your mother's honor) and the bad (like revenge, loss of control).

Oo - good post!

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Thing is, Spock's solution in "Galileo 7" was just as logical as he claimed it was: when death is all but certain and all options but one have been exhausted, the logical action is the shot in the dark simply because a slight chance of success/survival is rationally preferable to no chance.

Among the many things I hate about this episode, the smug and ridiculously overdone laughter of the humans as they willfully fail to acknowledge this ranks pretty far up there.

 

[Ronald Held]

I agree that his decision was not intrinsically illogical.

 

[KobayashiMaru13]

Among the many things I hate about this episode, the smug and ridiculously overdone laughter of the humans as they willfully fail to acknowledge this ranks pretty far up there.

that really bugged me too.

 

[Grant]

Thing is, Spock's solution in "Galileo 7" was just as logical as he claimed it was: when death is all but certain and all options but one have been exhausted, the logical action is the shot in the dark simply because a slight chance of success/survival is rationally preferable to no chance.

Among the many things I hate about this episode, the smug and ridiculously overdone laughter of the humans as they willfully fail to acknowledge this ranks pretty far up there.

I think spock's tatics & behavior in the episode were terrible. Not stunning the creatures, but just shooting 'across the bow' ??---After it had already been established in earlier episodes they had 'heavy stun' settings. Crazy.

But then the only really logical thing he does at the end is the one they mock him for.

I guess they felt taking him to task for really stupid decisions---like leaving Gatano alone in the fog with the creatures would hurt his character, but a good hearty laugh about his 'emotinal decision' that succeeded would solve all the problems.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Good points, all. Never much cared for this one.

 

[Phillip Culley]

^Since "The Cloud Minders" was preceded in the production sequence by "The Lights of Zetar," I've decided that Spock's out-of-character behavior was an aftereffect of the neurological disruption caused by the Zetarians' attacks.

Or you could say McCoy didn't quite wire his brain back properly in 'Spock's Brain'

 

[Christopher]

plus, at some point he went through a vulcan ritual to purge himself of all emotion. granted, he did not complete it, it did have an effect that did leave him less emotional.

Only very briefly. That ritual, the Kolinahr, was what Spock undertook between the series and Star Trek: The Motion Picture. He failed Kolinahr and went to face V'Ger, and for about half the film he was much colder than before, but then he had his epiphany inside V'Ger about the barrenness of a life without emotion. And from that point on -- the majority of the character's existence, both in reality and in-story -- Spock has been much more emotionally open and at peace with himself. The way Nimoy played him in the post-TMP movies and "Unification" was much more expressive than in the later portions of TOS, much closer to his first-season portrayal. In the Abrams movie, there's not even a hint of emotional reserve in Nimoy's performance; he's basically just being himself.

 

[Rackon]

Only very briefly. That ritual, the Kolinahr, was what Spock undertook between the series and Star Trek: The Motion Picture. He failed Kolinahr and went to face V'Ger, and for about half the film he was much colder than before, but then he had his epiphany inside V'Ger about the barrenness of a life without emotion. And from that point on -- the majority of the character's existence, both in reality and in-story -- Spock has been much more emotionally open and at peace with himself. The way Nimoy played him in the post-TMP movies and "Unification" was much more expressive than in the later portions of TOS, much closer to his first-season portrayal. In the Abrams movie, there's not even a hint of emotional reserve in Nimoy's performance; he's basically just being himself.

Exactly. That's why I find Nimoy as Spock's performance in XI to so beautiful and moving.

 

[KobayashiMaru13]

^ i suppose so. like when he got all sentimental at the end of (my least favorite ST movie ) TWOK. of course, he WAS dying....

 

[VulcanVixen]

In the begining they were still very much in the developement of Spock's look, and subsequently his character. Remember, he is half human (even if it is burried way deep down in there somewhere!lol) Spock is also known for his coy smirks, and the cocking of his Vulcan brow. I think it's just his personality, Nimoy knows what he's doing, and knows when to tone the true nature of Spock when things get serious. It's those little moments where Spock shows emotion is what makes his character much more interesting! It's exciting.

 

[xanthes]

In the original series, I believe that his last genuine display of emotion that wasn't brought about by some sort of influence was at the end of Amok Time when he found out that he really didn't kill Kirk.

 

[plynch]

Anyone know what the original writer's bible says about Spock's emotion or lack thereof?

 

[Christopher]

Anyone know what the original writer's bible says about Spock's emotion or lack thereof?

Well, the original 1964 format says merely:

Mr. Spock's quiet temperament is in dramatic contrast to his satanic look. Of all the crew aboard, he is the nearest to Captain April's equal, phyically and emotionally, as a commander of men. His primary weakness is an almost cat-like curiosity over anything the slightest "alien". [sic]

I don't have the original writers' bible, but I have the third revision from April 1967, which would be the start of the second season. It says:

...[H]e is biologically, emotionally, and even intellectually a "half-breed". ... He also has a strange Vulcan "ESP" abiliy to merge his mind with another intelligence, read the thoughts there. He dislikes doing so since it deprives him of his proud stoic mannerisms and reveals too much of his inner self. Also, the physical and emotional cost of this is quite high.

We now realize that Spock is capable of feeling emotion, but he denies this at every opportunity. On his own planet, to show emotion is considered the grossest of sins. He makes every effort to hede [sic] what he considers the "weakness" of his half-human heredity.