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When did Fred Freiberger jump the shark?

Season 3 had good episodes and stinkers. (And I agree that "And the Children Shall Lead" was the worst ever.) But for me I think the problem was that the show "felt" different. Too many episodes were just campy, and not in a good way. :(
There was absolutely a different feel to the series in the final season. The music was frequently darker. The season embraced more high concept stories, lost the soft focus for the ladies, and about 90% of the banter was gone from the series. The show was also in the 10pm timeslot, so there was a bit of an increase in the danger and brutality. Without Roddenberry, Fontana and people like Coon or Lucas passing the scripts around for rewrites, the identity of the series changed. It reflected the styles of Fred Freiberger and, probably more so, Arthur Singer. And from Whom Gods Destroy to the end of the series, it was just those two guys rewriting scripts from mostly freelancing newcomers to Star Trek.

So, yeah, it's not really the same show. The characters are there, the sets, and most of the production crew, but the story minds are different.
 
There was absolutely a different feel to the series in the final season.

Definitely a shakeup. The show was renewed, of course, after the write-in, but Roddenberry left in a huff because season 3 was originally to have moved back to Monday (but didn't, thanks to the creator of "Laugh-In" getting in a huff over what was promised to Roddenberry... and chances are, "Laugh-In" wasn't as expensive to make, and was seen as new, whereas TOS was now seen as "old hat". As Chekov was created to appeal to younger-adult audiences, the Friday night slot has a counterintuitive effect as the young adults are too busy getting busy elsewhere...)

The music was frequently darker.

A terrific change. the occasional change in style can be important and TOS had so much reused music that new stuff had to be scored. A lot of it is quite good, IMHO.

The season embraced more high concept stories,

:luvlove:

Of which many work, even the flawed ones, especially when the script feels like it's trying.

lost the soft focus for the ladies,

A big change. The show's level of sexism started to drop as a result. Or, rather, at the moment, in recollecting TOS, the worst sexist stuff came in season two. Not saying season three got rid of it entirely, but would seasons one or two have Vanna as a miner, for example? (Then again, this same story has Spock - once reticent to discuss his sex life to anyone in even a high-level summarization and in a carefully crafted story, "Amok Time" - now has him so freely discussing the issue as if it's no different to how he prepares morning breakfast as small talk. I suppose the idea is to try to clue in new viewers* on character background in lieu of nonexistent home video, and audiences having to listen to Droxine whine incessantly about why Spock is avoiding the issue (just as much as when little Missy and Tommy keep whining "Are we there yet!!!" during the vacation drive and all) would not be a great use of 5 minutes of screentime... still could have been handled better, if even needed at all. We know Spock, like all Vulcans or partial Vulcans, control emotions through (what would be named as "Kolinahr") and other extreme rituals, which were hinted at in various stories, of which "Plato's Stepchildren" is one of the more recent entries. )

* Which likely didn't exist. By 1969, only established fans kept watching the show that would sit through anything, especially considering the "creative, detail-driven fanfic" created in the early-70s involving Spock's parts reminds of how tuned-in many devout fans were at the time. Which shouldn't be poked fun at too much, since at least there was some creativity applied and just didn't have the same parts and processes that bog-standard humans have. I wonder how many of fans in this area become biologists in real life?

and about 90% of the banter was gone from the series.

Some of it was missed, but it's also a step up. Chekov's act was so overdone and was more as (unintentionally?) backhanded insults, as well as character-stifling.

The show was also in the 10pm timeslot, so there was a bit of an increase in the danger and brutality.

Mostly a plus, especially as the show was deemed "adult sci-fi")**. Showing space can be a dangerous place. It's an easy trick to up the dramatic stakes, and more often than not, the drama was confined to the characters as small to mid-scale. No impending big galactic catastrophe as sweeps week threat fodder.

** Apart from, arguably, "Where the Children Shall Lead" (the worst episode ever)

Without Roddenberry, Fontana and people like Coon or Lucas passing the scripts around for rewrites, the identity of the series changed. It reflected the styles of Fred Freiberger and, probably more so, Arthur Singer. And from Whom Gods Destroy to the end of the series, it was just those two guys rewriting scripts from mostly freelancing newcomers to Star Trek.

Aye. Coon and Fontana definitely were as much the heart of the show as Roddenberry... but they too did story fixes and co-wrote teleplays for newcomers (e.g. "A Piece of the Action") to get iffy scripts up to something almost Startrekkish.

From what I remember reading, had there been a fourth season, Margaret Armen would have become the official script editor. That would have been cool.

Season 3 was a shake-up, but looking at "Whom Gods Destroy" onward, there are a few messes and a few missed opportunities. But none that are uninteresting. Which reminds, even "The Savage Curtain" (the weakest of the bunch in terms of plot ideas) ties into "Day of the Dove" in an interesting way. Note a comment that Kirk says in "Dove" about learning about the Federation, to Kirk and Spock recognizing "Kahless" to how Kahless is revered and expanded on by Worf and others in TNG... likely unintentional, of course, especially as nobody in 1969 would have ever have guessed that a TNG would have meant anything other than "Tender Nummy Guppies" for all anyone might know.

So, yeah, it's not really the same show. The characters are there, the sets, and most of the production crew, but the story minds are different.

It's a mess, but it also feels like they were trying to get out of what felt like a rut at times. Even "That Which Survives" had to do a lot of plot juggling with the budget cuts, since the defense system should easily produce more than one killer security sentry with as the system is otherwise inefficient. Cool use of platform to have all the actors lose their balance on at the start, though. That said, Spock's character was a tad off the mark in this one as well, used mostly for comic/lampooned effect as well.
 
"That Which Survies" was from an original D.C Fontana outline, "Survival". Sorry if I've missed that in the thread somewhere. A pretty cool idea in the oeuvre of the time, IMO.

Point being, it was a cool idea that was dumbed down by the 3rd Season hacks, Freiberger and Singer. There was no Roddenberry, Fontana (she bolted), Coon, Black...and the fact that Lucas gets a credit is probably which gave us 10 minutes out of 50 of fun.

I don't see how putting lipstick on the 3rd Season pigs is of much value.
 
I think I read somewhere that Freiberger changed the turbolift conversation between Spock and the Romulan Commander, at the end of "The Enterprise Incident", and Fontana disliked it (among many other things they changed in her original outline). But I can't seem to find the source now for the life of me. Can anyone verify this? It was something about the dialogue being more flirtatious in Freiberger's rewrite.
 
Season 3 felt more like Season 1 in overall tone. There is something of a more casual laid back feeling overall to Season 2.
Season 1 has always been my idea of a perfect TV show. "The Alternative Factor" notwithstanding, every episode has plenty fo recommend it. And there's just the right balance of science fiction, action/adventure, drama, suspense, romance, moralizing, and lightheartedness. (Even "Mudd's Women" -- an episode many people on this board can't stand -- has some damn good direction and cinematography.)

Season 2 just doesn't do it for me as much -- too much comedy (much of it not funny), too many parallel earth stories, and the production quality isn't nearly as polished as Season 1.

Season 3 -- take away "And The Children Shall Lead" (please)," "The Way to Eden," and a few others -- and the overall tone is more akin to Season 1. I just wish Season 3 had better scripts.
 
The show maybe does more criticism for having so many Parallel Earth stories but there is a combination of Well they had to do it to use the resources/save on budget and For being made for that reason, at least a few of them were still good.

Season 2 did have a lot of comedy episodes but I think still not excessive especially with that Season 1 I think had pretty few, between them they feel pretty balanced and complementary.
 
"That Which Survies" was from an original D.C Fontana outline, "Survival". Sorry if I've missed that in the thread somewhere. A pretty cool idea in the oeuvre of the time, IMO.

Point being, it was a cool idea that was dumbed down by the 3rd Season hacks, Freiberger and Singer. There was no Roddenberry, Fontana (she bolted), Coon, Black...and the fact that Lucas gets a credit is probably which gave us 10 minutes out of 50 of fun.

I don't see how putting lipstick on the 3rd Season pigs is of much value.

Is there a transcript of the outline that can be read anywhere? The finished product is definitely superficial and lacking despite some solid ideas underneath, but I pin that mostly to the casting budget and impracticality of bypassing plot holes like "Why can't their computer send out multiple people at the same time?"

3 isn't perfect, but had a lot of hurdles to get through. The fact they got a Romulan ship made and the occasional episode going above and beyond, to compensate for all the bottle episodes because of the budget, is pretty significant.

Season 3 -- take away "And The Children Shall Lead" (please)," "The Way to Eden," and a few others -- and the overall tone is more akin to Season 1. I just wish Season 3 had better scripts.

"Eden" also originated as a Fontana script, but whittled down and changed to what was filmed. IMHO, the part of the story that would have been McCoy's kid, Joanna, falling for Kirk, was wisely changed to Irina and Chekov having a previous relationship but split. So much more was changed and added that Fontana wanted her name removed from the script. What was filmed shoves in so much and gives little time for any of it. I can defend some of it for what it's trying to do, but it is a mess and the hippie songs are a mixed bag... yup, 300 years from now, space hippies will look just like 1960s hippies... or 200 years (Space Seed) or 900 or whatever (Gothos), etc, depending on what season 1 episode one had just watched... great scripts with one of the worst inconsistencies of them all: In what century to place "Trek" in.
 
There was absolutely a different feel to the series in the final season. The season. . . . .lost the soft focus for the ladies. . . . . . . The show was also in the 10pm timeslot, so there was a bit of an increase in the danger and brutality.
I never saw it that way. CHARLIE X was quite brutal, and that was the very first episode televised in New York City. Several crewmen died violently until THE ENEMY WITHIN...while MUDD'S WOMEN was the first non-fatal TOS episode (since it aired before CORBOMITE did).

As for the soft focus, I never missed it. If TOS actresses have cold sores, so be it. I love minds....and women in regular focus. There were a few soft-focus moments in Season Two but they tended to fruitful-ize and multiply in the first year. Perhaps someone has stats on this.
A big change. The show's level of sexism started to drop as a result. Or, rather, at the moment, in recollecting TOS, the worst sexist stuff came in season two.

That said, Spock's character was a tad off the mark in this one as well, used mostly for comic/lampooned effect as well.
Affirmative that. Spocko's legendary fighting skills often seemed comparatively pitiful in CLOUD MINDERS, FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW and SAVAGE CURTAIN. Kirk even outlasts him while fighting separately, which seems to violate the Trek (Logical) Bible.

My favorite TOS episode of them all is from Year Two. It's BY ANY OTHER NAME. It might be by default the most sexist installment of them all*, as Rojan's Kelvans blockify every single nonessential female, leaving only four essential senior officer non-Russian Caucasoids. This was not a great week for agency on the Enterprise at all.

(*That's not why I liked it.)
 
I never saw it that way. CHARLIE X was quite brutal, and that was the very first episode televised in New York City. Several crewmen died violently until THE ENEMY WITHIN...while MUDD'S WOMEN was the first non-fatal TOS episode (since it aired before CORBOMITE did).

"Charlie X" definitely was brutal. Fantasy high-concept stuff, but brutal nonetheless.

Affirmative that. Spocko's legendary fighting skills often seemed comparatively pitiful in CLOUD MINDERS, FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW and SAVAGE CURTAIN. Kirk even outlasts him while fighting separately, which seems to violate the Trek (Logical) Bible.

My favorite TOS episode of them all is from Year Two. It's BY ANY OTHER NAME. It might be by default the most sexist installment of them all*, as Rojan's Kelvans blockify every single nonessential female, leaving only four essential senior officer non-Russian Caucasoids. This was not a great week for agency on the Enterprise at all.

As a kid, I liked the dodecahedron shapes and high concept idea of storage of beings. I noticed that the red shirt guy was spared but the lady red shirt was crushed (again, high concept eww action action.) That didn't matter because mosto f the crew would be turned into the cubes, even if the Kelvins were too bored to neatly tidy up the corrodors*. By the time everyone else was turned into glorified D&D dice, I only noticed "the big three plus Scotty". Was the racism intentional, or incidental/accidental given that TOS season 2 was so entrenched with and hyper-focused on "the big three" and the only one left would be the chief engineer, in case a bolt fell off or something.

* Unless they, and their offspring**, for 300 years, planned to use them as bocce ball, kickball, baseball, basketball, hackeysack, tennis, or anything else. Which wouldn't be practicable as they'd all get turned to dust by the impact of said racket, bat, foot, hand, name-the-body-part used, etc.​
** Eww, cooties!​

(*That's not why I liked it.)

LOL
 
I never saw it that way. CHARLIE X was quite brutal, and that was the very first episode televised in New York City. Several crewmen died violently until THE ENEMY WITHIN...while MUDD'S WOMEN was the first non-fatal TOS episode (since it aired before CORBOMITE did).

I never saw it that way. CHARLIE X was quite brutal, and that was the very first episode televised in New York City. Several crewmen died violently until THE ENEMY WITHIN...while MUDD'S WOMEN was the first non-fatal TOS episode (since it aired before CORBOMITE did).

As for the soft focus, I never missed it. If TOS actresses have cold sores, so be it. I love minds....and women in regular focus. There were a few soft-focus moments in Season Two but they tended to fruitful-ize and multiply in the first year. Perhaps someone has stats on this.

Affirmative that. Spocko's legendary fighting skills often seemed comparatively pitiful in CLOUD MINDERS, FOR THE WORLD IS HOLLOW and SAVAGE CURTAIN. Kirk even outlasts him while fighting separately, which seems to violate the Trek (Logical) Bible.

My favorite TOS episode of them all is from Year Two. It's BY ANY OTHER NAME. It might be by default the most sexist installment of them all*, as Rojan's Kelvans blockify every single nonessential female, leaving only four essential senior officer non-Russian Caucasoids. This was not a great week for agency on the Enterprise at all.

(*That's not why I liked it.)
According to Newspapers.com records "The Man Trap" was televised first in New York City like elsewhere.

https://ibb.co/Xb9zNSf
 
It might be by default the most sexist installment of them all*, as Rojan's Kelvans blockify every single nonessential female, leaving only four essential senior officer non-Russian Caucasoids. This was not a great week for agency on the Enterprise at all.
Do you think if the chief engineer had been a woman that they would have zapped her and gone and found a middle age Scotsman?
 
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