As someone who likes the show… the statement is ridiculous.
Popular perhaps, but ‘one of the most popular shows in the world’ displays an extreme disconnect from reality.
When did Discovery JUMP the Shark?
- Thread starter TerryTrek
- Start date
As someone who likes the show… the statement is ridiculous.
Popular perhaps, but ‘one of the most popular shows in the world’ displays an extreme disconnect from reality.
There were stages. I enjoyed S1 for the most part. I was interested to see where things were heading. Hell, Burnham was tolerable - I might even go so far to say interesting (from what I recollect).
Lorca's turn to moustache-twirling villain at the conclusion of the MU arc is what initially prompted me to go "uh-oh". What followed was a half-baked and wholly unsatisfying rush to wrap up the remainder of Fuller's Klingon War arc.
With that over with, we had S2 to look forward to. Starting with a clean slate, so there was that.
It was immediately apparent they were gunning for a lighter shift in tone; quippy dialogue saw a marked uptick in the season premiere. A mystery was established and ... it was intriguing enough to tolerate. IIRC it was a bit disjointed, but mid-season, the show hit one hell of a home run with If Memory Serves. At the time, I thought "man, we've finally turned the corner".
Unfortunately, that moment of glory gave way to a quick descent back into stupidity with Klingon Time Crystals & I Can't Believe It's Not Borg! S31 / Control nonsense before finally revealing You-Know-Who as The Red Angel. Then, after a fairly ugly space battle, they abandoned ship (figuratively speaking) and flung the show into the distant future.
With that over with, we had S3 to look forward to. Starting with a clean slate - again - so there was that.
Light and breezy was the name of the game again, with Burnham and Book engaged in hijinks. We had a new mystery to tantalize us. Unfortunately, as the season progressed, it was more of the same. It was MORE of the same. The future had never been more uninteresting. And The Burn ... that was a hell of a thing. Don't think anyone had Crying Kelpian Kid on their bingo card. That the Starfleet of the future - the time of the uber-advanced Time Cops that could transport across space and time with near the same convenience as a Q - needed the help of these knuckleheads to figure out what caused the calamity? Jesus Christ.
Yep. It was S3 that killed it proper for me.
As for S4, yeah - they didn't know they were killing sentients. Like hell they didn't. Did species whatever-their-number-was not use subspace communication or warp fields? because the galaxy was teeming with those. They would have known they weren't natural phenomena - right?
As you can see, as the show progressed, it gets nastier and more nitpicky. I really shouldn't have watched anymore after checking out proper S3.
In my view, it's generic, uninspired and mid sci-fi. As a Star Trek? It's BAD. I think S4 was a good enough full stop, but they've gone and made another. I'm glad it's finishing. I'm glad we appear to be at the tail end of this era of Trek. Discovery started something, and for the most, it's sucked.
But in its defense, it wasn't Picard S2 or S3.
It had a lot of potential, which is what really pisses me off. And, harsh as I might be, I did like at least one or two episodes from the latter seasons. When they first discovered Starfleet? That was good. S4 ... I don't remember. I know they attempted smaller arcs within the greater mystery box, which was something, at least.
I think you've up my word budget for 2024.
Lorca's turn to moustache-twirling villain at the conclusion of the MU arc is what initially prompted me to go "uh-oh". What followed was a half-baked and wholly unsatisfying rush to wrap up the remainder of Fuller's Klingon War arc.
With that over with, we had S2 to look forward to. Starting with a clean slate, so there was that.
It was immediately apparent they were gunning for a lighter shift in tone; quippy dialogue saw a marked uptick in the season premiere. A mystery was established and ... it was intriguing enough to tolerate. IIRC it was a bit disjointed, but mid-season, the show hit one hell of a home run with If Memory Serves. At the time, I thought "man, we've finally turned the corner".
Unfortunately, that moment of glory gave way to a quick descent back into stupidity with Klingon Time Crystals & I Can't Believe It's Not Borg! S31 / Control nonsense before finally revealing You-Know-Who as The Red Angel. Then, after a fairly ugly space battle, they abandoned ship (figuratively speaking) and flung the show into the distant future.
With that over with, we had S3 to look forward to. Starting with a clean slate - again - so there was that.
Light and breezy was the name of the game again, with Burnham and Book engaged in hijinks. We had a new mystery to tantalize us. Unfortunately, as the season progressed, it was more of the same. It was MORE of the same. The future had never been more uninteresting. And The Burn ... that was a hell of a thing. Don't think anyone had Crying Kelpian Kid on their bingo card. That the Starfleet of the future - the time of the uber-advanced Time Cops that could transport across space and time with near the same convenience as a Q - needed the help of these knuckleheads to figure out what caused the calamity? Jesus Christ.
Yep. It was S3 that killed it proper for me.
As for S4, yeah - they didn't know they were killing sentients. Like hell they didn't. Did species whatever-their-number-was not use subspace communication or warp fields? because the galaxy was teeming with those. They would have known they weren't natural phenomena - right?
As you can see, as the show progressed, it gets nastier and more nitpicky. I really shouldn't have watched anymore after checking out proper S3.
In my view, it's generic, uninspired and mid sci-fi. As a Star Trek? It's BAD. I think S4 was a good enough full stop, but they've gone and made another. I'm glad it's finishing. I'm glad we appear to be at the tail end of this era of Trek. Discovery started something, and for the most, it's sucked.
But in its defense, it wasn't Picard S2 or S3.
It had a lot of potential, which is what really pisses me off. And, harsh as I might be, I did like at least one or two episodes from the latter seasons. When they first discovered Starfleet? That was good. S4 ... I don't remember. I know they attempted smaller arcs within the greater mystery box, which was something, at least.
I think you've up my word budget for 2024.
No.They would have known they weren't natural phenomena - right?
Agreed.
. Actually Paramount Plus doesn't release their numbers publicly (with one caveat) The only numbers that do get released are when a shows weekly performance manages to crack the top ten in overall across the board for steaming originals.
For example, people who do get access to streaming data, get listings from Disney, Apple, Hulu, Warners, Peacock an Amazon where they see listings of the between top twenty to top thirty for each week on that specific platform (even then thats barely scratches the service of the amount of content available each week). Paramount does not make the information available to the Public.
In fact the metrics used for streaming is the combined ratings of any episode of the program during that week. So platforms that release full seasons at once general consume between 5 to 9 spots of the top ten each week. This would be Netflix. Many studios do a hybrid style some programs full season, some weekly releases.
Paramount for most of its releases have stuck to the one episode a week (though some shows including four that have tracked have had 2 episodes drop in the same week)).
But most of paramounts releases would do not have enough viewers to make the top ten. And of course the threshold varies each week on how many viewers is needed to make the top Ten. Since Paramount has released the data for the shows that would qualify, that threshold has ranged between 203 million minutes viewed and 418 million minutes viewed.
Since that March 5th date these are the programs released by Paramount that have managed to crack the Top Ten. In Chronological order.
1. 1923 - 560 million minutes (on the week first reported, and its last episode of its season). To date the highest rated single week for a Paramount Plus show (gives strong indication on why they have pushed so much development in Taylor Sheridan's western works.
2. Picard. 3 weeks tracked out of the 8 weeks off the final season that Paramount reported. With numbers between 276 to 400. (weeks it didn't the 10th place result was between 279 through 409). That 400 is the highest that Trek has tracked on the top Ten. And the third highest reported weekly number for Paramount.
3. Strange New World. 7 weeks tracked. With numbers ranging between 324 through 393. The week with 393 is the a week that had two episodes released during the week (though not both on the same day, unlike the first two episode of this seasons halo). The weeks that didn't track had the 10th ranked with numbers between 346 - 381. Statistically speaking using these you can compare the best and worst possible results between 3rd season Picard and 2nd season SNW, and SNW did rate higher (though in fairness its impossible to safely gauge how well the double release for SNW inflated its highest rated week).
4. Special Ops: Lioness 2 weeks tracked with numbers between 342 - 363 (the last two weeks of its run). It also started its run with a two episode drop at the same day. For the 6 weeks it didn't track the range of the 10th rated program was 303 to 393. With 6 weeks airing when SNW aired. We can figure out that its ratings during its run average lower then SNW.
5. Lawman Bass Reeves 1 week tracked with 290 million minutes viewed (this is a two episode drop). The remaining 6 weeks it didn't track the 10th ranked shows tracked between 216 to 282.
6. Halo Season 2. To date all episodes have tracked from this season. With numbers between 450 (the week of 2 episodes being dropped) to 338.
Note: You will find this list first released on Deadline and some ratings sights. Those are not final numbers. RyansRatings posts the final numbers. If you follow tv ratings you will see Final numbers released daily, actually get updated and revised through two weeks after their release. Some times the differences are quite minor, some are a bit larger.
So first depending on how streaming shows are actually performing, we could have weeks with everything in top ten actually getting ratings higher then any Trek shows that have managed to track.
But in reality we very well might not see any episodes of Discovery track. What we know about CBS online data, is that pre season 1 Picard. Discovery's seasons were the strongest performing non live sports programming (ie Football) on the service. Picard season 1 did out perform Discovery. We know season 1 of SNW outperformed discovery. What we don't know is how season 3 Picard and Season 2 SNW did in relation to their earlier season. But it gives some indiction that it very likely will perform lower numbers then Picard or SNW. It's also been a longer wait between seasons that typically doesn't;t help ratings. But who knows.
Short answer: when Bryan Fuller was forced out.
Longer answer: I was really busy with real life and didn't follow the behind the scenes minutia in great detail beyond Bryan Fuller leaving. I just assumed DISCOVERY was set in an alt-universe a la the Abramsverse, so didn't realize I should be that worried about continuity anyway. I didn't love season 1, but it was watchable and more enjoyable than not... more so than the (to me, abysmal) Abramsverse.
When I rewatched the first two seasons, I was wondering where my breaking point had been exactly. For me, it turned out to be after the Talos IV episode. I cannot stand Ethan Peck's Spock. And, the writing took a major turn for the worse, coinciding with the ouster of Aaron Harberts and Gretchen Berg, Alex Kurtzman assuming full control, and Michelle Paradise arriving. And the rest is history.
Longer answer: I was really busy with real life and didn't follow the behind the scenes minutia in great detail beyond Bryan Fuller leaving. I just assumed DISCOVERY was set in an alt-universe a la the Abramsverse, so didn't realize I should be that worried about continuity anyway. I didn't love season 1, but it was watchable and more enjoyable than not... more so than the (to me, abysmal) Abramsverse.
When I rewatched the first two seasons, I was wondering where my breaking point had been exactly. For me, it turned out to be after the Talos IV episode. I cannot stand Ethan Peck's Spock. And, the writing took a major turn for the worse, coinciding with the ouster of Aaron Harberts and Gretchen Berg, Alex Kurtzman assuming full control, and Michelle Paradise arriving. And the rest is history.
Seems strange thing to worry about.
Bingo. For me, that is pretty much the epitaph of the show, "wasted potential".
When Bryan Fuller was hired...
Discovery has been all over the map to be sure, and it capitulated a little too much to loud and obnoxious elements of the fandom, but I don’t think it’s ever jumped the shark. It’s had stronger spells and not so strong spells, but the quality has been fairly consistent for me.
I think it’s a significant chunk of the fandom that jumped the shark (all across the internet you’ll find an astonishing amount of vitriol and hate aimed at the show, all because it wasn’t what they wanted it to be).
I think it’s a significant chunk of the fandom that jumped the shark (all across the internet you’ll find an astonishing amount of vitriol and hate aimed at the show, all because it wasn’t what they wanted it to be).
I didn’t make it that far, but give them credit for trying something different.
Respectfully, no. That is incorrect.
The images of the Klingons leaked prior to the premiere gave some fans pause, as the did the revelation that DIS would focus on the Federation-Klingon War (instead of say, first contact with the Sheliak), but there was still a lot of optimism for Disco. Especially once the intro came on, it felt like true Trek right off the bat.
Then the season progressed and the viewers turned on it, over it not being good story and having unlikable characters for the most part, and it wasn’t until it had the mirror universe eps that it was seen as getting good again. Then, after annoyingly killing off Culber and disappointing viewers by revealing that Lorca was from the mirror universe and all that came after, it returned to the strongly disliked Klingon war arc.
I think the viewers at the time wanted to like Disco. When the show did not turn out like they had imagined, they subsequently chose to abandon ship.
Yes, an oft-forgotten fact of the term ‘jump the shark’.
With that in mind, for me it was the end of the S4 premiere. Specifically, the destruction of Kwejian. Just one too many planets blown up in Trek by this point. And one too many threat-of-the-season seasons by this point too.
Its true that they stuck the landing in S4 for the first time. And there are reasons to be positive about the upcoming 5th season. It doesn’t charge the fact that I rolled my eyes and ignored DIS for months after I saw the destruction of Kwejian.
@FederationHistorian
I’ll take your word for it. I wasn’t so deep into Star Trek fandom at the time so maybe you’d know better.
It is my impression though, that even if it was loved at first, the worm turned pretty fucking quickly.
I’ll take your word for it. I wasn’t so deep into Star Trek fandom at the time so maybe you’d know better.
It is my impression though, that even if it was loved at first, the worm turned pretty fucking quickly.
It was like any other Trek, some liked it, some didn’t.
I was here for when the show was announced, when we saw the first teasers, trailers, cast announcements, sets and costumes, when the first smart phone photo of the Klingons leaked and when the show premiered. Saying it was “not universally embraced by the fandom when it launched” and that it “stumbled out of the gate” strike me as pretty accurate descriptions of how people here reacted to the show and how the first season was perceived. “Some liked it, some didn’t” fits the bill as well.
People who watched TOS and TAS and looked at more fantastic ideas
It's a good idea.
That's definitely the case. Little grace was given for a new show.
Though, to be fair, I would always encourage people to stop watching it if they don't like it. Life is too short for the nonsense idea of I have to watch something.
It's dangerous to say on a board like this, but you changed my mind.When Bryan Fuller was hired...
Imagine a different Berman era veteran like Ronald D. Moore, René Echevarria, or Manny Coto had been tapped instead. Now that's a crazy road not taken.
I mean, he's the one that requested the Klingons be redesigned, ignore all previous Klingon ship designs, and that all the federation ships be flat with square nacelles. At least according to the people who designed them.
If he hadn't left, we may not have gotten the better Season 2 design of the Klingons.
I would imagine we'd see many more redesigns to ships, and aliens, etc.
I've watched both, on re-runs granted.
I have to disagree, it was so shockingly bad I rolled my eyes so hard they almost went into the back of my head.
