When can we expect USS Kelvin novels?

[Sci]

But accusing a young human being who happens to be female of basing her life choices on less than pure logic? That's SEXIST!!!"

Yes, it is, because there's absolutely no evidence [in] that scene to imply that her desire to be posted aboard the Enterprise was due to Spock's presence.

Oh for Christ's sake.

Yes, Sci, when you when you narrow everything down to that 15 second interaction, there's absolutely no evidence. If you ignore the entire rest of the fucking movie, if you feign ignorance of everything else that's revealed about these characters, if you convince yourself the turbolift scene and the transporter scenes happen in a vacuum with no basis in anything that's come before in these characters' history, if you are ignorant of the concept of "subtext" and simply accept everything presented to you at face value, and if you pretend to have no fucking clue about human nature... then, yes, you can argue there was absolutely no emotional component in Uhura's request.

Of course, your accusations of sexism would still be utterly baseless and personally insulting.

Even including the rest of the film, there is no evidence that Uhura's desire to serve aboard the Enterprise was motivated by anything other than her career goals. The Enterprise was consistently described by the other characters as being the starship you'd want to serve on, and Uhura's quoting of Spock's evaluations of her abilities (combined with her knowledge of the Romulan language) made it pretty clear that she's the most capable communications officer candidate and therefore deserves to be aboard the Enterprise.

No one's saying that she doesn't also want to be with Spock, but to argue that that was her primary reason for being aboard the ship when she herself made it clear in that scene that she wanted to be aboard for professional reasons -- and when the acting subtext was that of, "Why are you taking away what I've earned, asshole?" rather than, "Why aren't we serving together?" -- then there's absolutely nothing there to support the idea of her wanting the Enterprise because of him.

 

[Christopher]

Zoe Saldana on Uhura, in the current movie tie-in issue of Star Trek Magazine:

I would think that she is a perfectionist – and that’s very similar to Spock. She’s not there to have fun. Ever since she was a little girl she felt she was meant to be on that Enterprise, and nothing was going to get in the way of that. That being said, these qualities about her gave me the sense that she would always be fascinated by men who were somewhat older than she was, men who were more mature and had more authority. Spock appears to have all these qualities when they all meet.

So she doesn't want the Enterprise because of Spock -- she wants it because she's driven to be the best. And she's drawn to Spock because he's a kindred spirit, a symbol of what she aspires to in her own life. Her interest in the ship and her interest in the man both arise from her own inherent perfectionism and ambition.

Just because a career woman is capable of falling in love doesn't mean her career goals are based solely on her affections. That's an assumption nobody would ever make about a man.

 

[JoeZhang]

And the producers and actors of Terminator 4 said that was a great movie. At the end of the day, you have to work with what's on the screen.

Singer more than likely wasn't going for "creepy stalker" Superman but that's what he gave us.

 

[captcalhoun]

Starfleet didn't seem to have too many ships in this incarnation. Six destroyed in orbit of Vulcan and "the rest of the fleet" in the Laurentian system. Who puts ALL of their ships on a training exercise at the same time?

Heck, at least they bothered to justify the absence of the fleet. In TMP, we were expected to believe that the Enterprise was the only Starfleet vessel within three days' travel of Earth.

And did they actually say anything about a training exercise? I think the Academy commandant said the fleet was "on maneuvers" there, which I think refers to something fairly routine, but I'm not sure of the specifics of the phrase's usage or if that's what he actually said. It's possible that there was some massive crisis underway in the Laurentian system.

IIRC, he said the fleet was 'engaged' in the Laurentian system. which sounds to me like a battle. must've been either a really tiny fleet or a fucking HUGE battle...

 

[8of5]

Starfleet didn't seem to have too many ships in this incarnation. Six destroyed in orbit of Vulcan and "the rest of the fleet" in the Laurentian system. Who puts ALL of their ships on a training exercise at the same time?

Heck, at least they bothered to justify the absence of the fleet. In TMP, we were expected to believe that the Enterprise was the only Starfleet vessel within three days' travel of Earth.

And did they actually say anything about a training exercise? I think the Academy commandant said the fleet was "on maneuvers" there, which I think refers to something fairly routine, but I'm not sure of the specifics of the phrase's usage or if that's what he actually said. It's possible that there was some massive crisis underway in the Laurentian system.

IIRC, he said the fleet was 'engaged' in the Laurentian system. which sounds to me like a battle. must've been either a really tiny fleet or a fucking HUGE battle...

I've been thinking of it as the fleet being referred to not being all of Starfleet, but just whichever fleet within the overall organisation is stationed in sector, or small group of sectors, which contain Earth and Vulcan.

That way it allows a large, but not insanely huge, number of ships to be off doing whatever they're up to in the Laurentian system, without it meaning the entirety of all of Starfleet is there.

 

[dahj]

IIRC, he said the fleet was 'engaged' in the Laurentian system. which sounds to me like a battle. must've been either a really tiny fleet or a fucking HUGE battle...

I'm pretty sure there was no battle.
If the Federation was at war with anyone, or at least under attack, they would probably be a bit more suspicious at a sudden catastrophe and a loss of communications with Vulcan.

 

[Broccoli]

But we know that in the Prime timeline, the Kelvin was not destroyed at that point and George Kirk survived for another 30 years or more beyond that.

About 20 years, at least according to the stuff that's been done with him in past books. I just re-checked my old copy of Final Frontier, and the last page describes how George Kirk was aboard a ship that disappeared without trace (in an obvious set-up for a sequel) just after his son Jimmy entered Starfleet Academy (so, maybe 2252ish? Final Frontier includes dates, but they're on the old pre-TNG timeline that puts everything about 60 years early).
Don't know off-hand if any other books have contradicted that since...

That note in Final Frontier was contradicted by the very same author in her follow-up tale Best Destiny, which mostly takes place in 2248 and features a very much alive George Kirk.

Also, Shat's novel Collision Course features a very much alive George Kirk in 2249 (although, it should be noted that this novel has no connection to the events/characters/description of characters in the previous novels mentioned above).

 

[Christopher]

IIRC, he said the fleet was 'engaged' in the Laurentian system. which sounds to me like a battle. must've been either a really tiny fleet or a fucking HUGE battle...

I'm pretty sure there was no battle.
If the Federation was at war with anyone, or at least under attack, they would probably be a bit more suspicious at a sudden catastrophe and a loss of communications with Vulcan.

A military, particularly one such as Starfleet, engages in missions other than combat. Heck, remember, they sent seven starships to respond to what they believed was a natural disaster at Vulcan. Maybe the fleet was in the Laurentian system to deal with a real natural disaster or massive humanitarian crisis.

 

[Broccoli]

^ I just assumed that remake of The Dark Knight was premiering in the Laurentian system, so everyone was over there watching that.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

^^ Also, it may have been that the majority of the home fleet was dealing with the situation in the Laurientian System. The Enterprise and her other starshippy friends didn't exactly strike me as a fully-ready and capable force on service, but rather - whatever they had at Earth at the time.

It all depends on how spread out you think Starfleet is. Is it like a gas or like maple syrup?

 

[JimT]

I haven't read anywhere close to all of the threads pertaining to the movie, so if these questions have been answered elsewhere, please forgive me and provide a link if possible.

There are at least two things I have been wondering since I saw the film that don't seem to jibe with the pre-Nero timeline:

1 - Why was a pregnant Winona on the Kelvin? Even if Nero hadn't shown up, odds are Kirk would still have been born in space, rather than in Iowa. My memory of the film dialogue is lacking, but in the novelization, Spock-Prime tells Kirk "you were born on a farm in Iowa" to which Kirk replies, "I was born on a ship!". Seems to me that his birthplace wouldn't have changed all that much, given that Winona was extremely preggers on the Kelvin. If the timeline didn't diverge until Nero arrived, why the difference in settings for the birth of James T. Kirk?

2 - Along similar lines, where was brother George Samuel Kirk? Did George Sr. and Winona leave him on Earth alone while they were in space? Doesn't seem right to me. In fact, there was no mention of Sam Kirk in the film AT ALL, as far as I remember. The novelization DOES depict him leaving the home of Winona and her new husband right before Jim jacked the Corvette. I don't know if that counts as "canon" or not, but whether Sam was on Earth or did not exist when the Kelvin was destroyed, either way is seems like the JJ-Trek timeline actually diverges BEFORE Nero came along.

Of course, maybe there is another explanation for this that I simply have not seen. I'd love an explanation. Thanks!

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

1 - Why was a pregnant Winona on the Kelvin? Even if Nero hadn't shown up, odds are Kirk would still have been born in space, rather than in Iowa. My memory of the film dialogue is lacking, but in the novelization, Spock-Prime tells Kirk "you were born on a farm in Iowa" to which Kirk replies, "I was born on a ship!". Seems to me that his birthplace wouldn't have changed all that much, given that Winona was extremely preggers on the Kelvin. If the timeline didn't diverge until Nero arrived, why the difference in settings for the birth of James T. Kirk?

My own theory is that they were on their way to Earth. A few hours distant from Earth, they redirected course to investigate the black hole. Had the black hole not appeared, the Kelvin would have arrived on Earth w/ plenty of time to spare.

 

[Trent Roman]

2 - Along similar lines, where was brother George Samuel Kirk? Did George Sr. and Winona leave him on Earth alone while they were in space? Doesn't seem right to me. In fact, there was no mention of Sam Kirk in the film AT ALL, as far as I remember. The novelization DOES depict him leaving the home of Winona and her new husband right before Jim jacked the Corvette. I don't know if that counts as "canon" or not, but whether Sam was on Earth or did not exist when the Kelvin was destroyed, either way is seems like the JJ-Trek timeline actually diverges BEFORE Nero came along.

When young Jimmy Dean Kirk steals a car, he passes a kid on the side of the road and screams out something that sounded like "Hey, George!". I took that to be his older brother. As for where he was at the time, I don't know that Starfleet at this point allowed children aboard starships, so I would venture that George was staying with family somewhere, possibly the uncle from whom Kirk stole the car.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Christopher]

1 - Why was a pregnant Winona on the Kelvin? Even if Nero hadn't shown up, odds are Kirk would still have been born in space, rather than in Iowa. My memory of the film dialogue is lacking, but in the novelization, Spock-Prime tells Kirk "you were born on a farm in Iowa" to which Kirk replies, "I was born on a ship!". Seems to me that his birthplace wouldn't have changed all that much, given that Winona was extremely preggers on the Kelvin. If the timeline didn't diverge until Nero arrived, why the difference in settings for the birth of James T. Kirk?

According to screenwriter Roberto Orci, the Kelvin was on its way back to Earth when it was diverted to investigate the "lightning storm in space." As a result of the attack, Winona went into labor prematurely and Kirk was born a week or so early. In the original history, the Kelvin returned to Earth just in time for Kirk to be born in Iowa.

2 - Along similar lines, where was brother George Samuel Kirk? Did George Sr. and Winona leave him on Earth alone while they were in space? Doesn't seem right to me. In fact, there was no mention of Sam Kirk in the film AT ALL, as far as I remember.

Who says he had to be alone? When Jim stole the Corvette, he was in the care of a relative (his Uncle Frank) while Winona was offworld. So we know for a fact, from the movie itself, that Winona Kirk is willing to leave her kids with family while she goes offworld. It stands to reason that she and George left Sam with family while they served aboard the Kelvin.

The kid walking along the side of the road in the Corvette scene was supposed to be Sam, but when the earlier scene with Sam was cut, young Jim was redubbed calling "Hey, Johnny!" instead of "Hey, Sam!"

...but whether Sam was on Earth or did not exist when the Kelvin was destroyed, either way is seems like the JJ-Trek timeline actually diverges BEFORE Nero came along.

Why would Sam being on Earth represent a divergence from prior canon? We know absolutely nothing about Sam Kirk's childhood from the original timeline, so anything this film establishes cannot be considered a canon change. At most, it conflicts with our preconceptions and assumptions, which isn't the same thing at all.

Besides, the original canon itself is anything but airtight when it comes to continuity. It contradicts itself all over the place. So it seems like an overreaction to jump on any small inconsistency as proof of prior timeline divergence.

 

[JD]

Also just in case you didn't know, the writers have said that Winnona was also a Starfleet Officer, so that's why she was on the Kelvin, in the first place.

 

[Christopher]

^And presumably why she was off-planet at the time of the Corvette scene.

 

[JimT]

Thanks for the info above...I was not aware that the Kelvin was on it's way back to Earth (I've only seen the film once, and my memory for the finer plot details is not very good). I can see how, if the conflict with the Narada caused Winona to go into premature labor, Jim could have been born on Earth had said conflict not occurred.

As far as leaving Sam with family, I guess that makes sense. However, in the novelization, the Kirk boys weren't with an Uncle Frank at the time of the 'Vette-jacking, they were living with Winona and her new husband (whose name escapes me now), and he was pissing both of the brothers off. Sam walked out while Jimmy was washing the car, and Jimmy decided to "take her for a spin."

I know the novelization has some differences from the film...to the writers out there, is this most likely due to ADF having a prior version of the script to work from, from his desire to flesh out the characters and scenes, or both? I'm specifically thinking of the stepfather vs. Uncle Frank scenario. I don't know where it was stated that he was living with his uncle...was that in the film itself, or cited elsewhere? Thanks again.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Starfleet didn't seem to have too many ships in this incarnation. Six destroyed in orbit of Vulcan and "the rest of the fleet" in the Laurentian system. Who puts ALL of their ships on a training exercise at the same time?

Heck, at least they bothered to justify the absence of the fleet. In TMP, we were expected to believe that the Enterprise was the only Starfleet vessel within three days' travel of Earth.

And did they actually say anything about a training exercise? I think the Academy commandant said the fleet was "on maneuvers" there, which I think refers to something fairly routine, but I'm not sure of the specifics of the phrase's usage or if that's what he actually said. It's possible that there was some massive crisis underway in the Laurentian system.

IIRC, he said the fleet was 'engaged' in the Laurentian system. which sounds to me like a battle. must've been either a really tiny fleet or a fucking HUGE battle...

"Tied up in the Laurentiian system" was the exact phrase - which could mean a battle or just something else that keeps them busy and unable to leave yet.

 

[Lonemagpie]

When young Jimmy Dean Kirk steals a car, he passes a kid on the side of the road and screams out something that sounded like "Hey, George!".

It's "Hey Johnny" - which surprised me, but I'm told it was originally George on location and got redubbed Johnny in post - don't know why.

 

[JoeZhang]

For all we know, by fleet they mean "first fleet" - so there are other fleets but they are so far away as to make no difference...