Whay doesn't starfleet use ships by other races.

[Nightfall to-Ennien]

I do like the livery idea, but as for why they don't seem to operate 'race-specific' ships, I always assumed it was a matter of standardization. The hull configuration might be different, but I'd be willing to bet that within a general technological era, components are largely plug-and-play interchangeable. I'd put money on just about everything but configuration-specific portions of the hull from, say, a wrecked Nebula being reusable on everything from another Nebula to a Galaxy to a New Orleans. It's not like they'd reinvent the wheel with every new class.

 

[B.J.]

I always the the Klingon BOP, Galor class, and D,Deridex Warbird would look good in federation Liveries.

There's a painting by Andrew Probert (wish I could find a link) depicting the launch of the 1701-D, flanked by several other ships, mostly Constitution & Excelsior classes. But one of the ships is a Klingon D7/K'tinga design updated with TNG Federation details and has a Starfleet livery. I'm pretty sure this painting was done early on in the TNG production, before we nailed down the fact that the Klingons were still a separate empire.

 

[James Wright]

Maybe it's too dark on Klingon ships for Bolian officers to see.
Maybe a Tellarite's fingers are too fat to press Vulcan buttons.

Lightbulbs can be changed. Control panels can be re-fit. the ship itself would be just fine.

Would love to see one of thoe vulcan ships from ENT done up in a Starfleet paint-scheme.

I always the the Klingon BOP, Galor class, and D,Deridex Warbird would look good in federation Liveries.

I'd like to see an upgraded D7 or K't'inga in Federation colors along side the upgraded Constitution.

James

 

[Tiberius]

Maybe it's too dark on Klingon ships for Bolian officers to see.
Maybe a Tellarite's fingers are too fat to press Vulcan buttons.

Lightbulbs can be changed. Control panels can be re-fit. the ship itself would be just fine.

Would love to see one of thoe vulcan ships from ENT done up in a Starfleet paint-scheme.

But if Klingon ships run on DC and Federation regulation lightbulbs run on AC, then you have to go through and replace the electrical system. If you have to do it with lots of different systems, then it probably isn't cost effective.

 

[Timo]

Indeed, "the ship itself" might end up being a worthless and easily replaceable chunk of metal, whereas the systems aboard would be prohibitively expensive to replace.

How much would Starfleet have to worry about commonalizing something like the fuel supply? Would fleet logistics collapse entirely if 4% of the ships used antitritium instead of antideuterium, or ran their fusion in reactors calling for 99.9999 pure deuterium rather than the standard 99.99 proof? Apparently, the Fleet already copes with a multitude of warp engine types, some a century old, but spares logistics would probably be trivialized by the invention of the replicator anyway. Finding skilled personnel to repair antiquated or exotic hardware might be the true bottleneck.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[James Wright]

I've got a question, since there is a treaty of peace between the Klingon Empire and the Federation, what's to prevent the Klingons from building an upgraded D7 or K't'inga spaceframe and giving it to the Federation as a gift?
Starfleet could fit out the space frame with their technology.
Starfleet might do likewise for the Klingons.
Just saying, you know!

James

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I'd be surprised if they hadn't done something like that in the 22 years since Narendra-III. Of course, they would have had to remove the cloaking device in order for Starfleet to still be in compliance with the Treaty of Algernon.

 

[James Wright]

The treaty you mentioned is an agreement between the Romulan Star Empire and the Federation, the Klingons are not mentioned anywhere in the treaty.
If said ships were used on the Federation-Romulan border then yes.
If Starfleet used them along side the Klingon fleet they could help the Klingons expand their science and medical divisions in the fleet.

 

[Knight Templar]

We see examples of this in today's military, even the U.S. uses European harrier jets and such. Wouldn't you think the feds would be using designs by other races? maybe selling surplus mirandas to the klingons or ferengi?

Misleading. The original basic Harrier design was of British origin.

Basically the U.S. took the original design and built a new version (called the Harrier II) with a different, enlarged wing and newer avionics. The U.S. Harriers were built in the U.S. by McDonald Douglas.

Which ships would the Federation use?

And has it occurred to you that other races like the Vulcans and Andorians might've preferred serving aboard Earth designed ships because they did not wish to give up design secrets and technology of their own vessels?

Of course, hundreds of years later its just a habit.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

The treaty you mentioned is an agreement between the Romulan Star Empire and the Federation, the Klingons are not mentioned anywhere in the treaty.
If said ships were used on the Federation-Romulan border then yes.
If Starfleet used them along side the Klingon fleet they could help the Klingons expand their science and medical divisions in the fleet.

The treaty is widely interpreted to mean that Starfleet is not allowed to possess cloaking devices of any type, as an explanation for why they still aren't using them in the 24th century despite having discovered that they work a century earlier and being allied with the Klingons who already have them. If Starfleet were to use Klingon vessels for any reason it would have to be with the cloaking devices ripped out.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

And has it occurred to you that other races like the Vulcans and Andorians might've preferred serving aboard Earth designed ships because they did not wish to give up design secrets and technology of their own vessels?

In that case it would make more sense to SERVE on their own vessels in the first place. Why would they volunteer for duty on Earth-designed ships when there are some perfectly good (and probably more advanced) Vulcan and Andorian ships in their own fleet?

Actually, I've been saying for a couple of years that the alien contingent we've seen in Starfleet is probably an immigrant population: aliens who just happen to live on Earth or have dual citizenship between Earth and some other Federation member. The best two examples of this are Nog and Worf: the former because he lives on a space station administered by the Federation, and the latter is an alien raised by human parents. Deanna Troi and Spock are both half human, and Ro Laren is a refugee who evidently fled to Earth (or human-controlled territory) from the Cardassians. Otherwise, very few non-humans seem to have joined Starfleet without some prior political/social ties to Earth.

It's pretty likely IMO that Starfleet is the most prolific of the Federation's space force, but hardly the ONLY such organization, even if it is the most important in wartime.

 

[USS Mariner]

I always the the Klingon BOP, Galor class, and D,Deridex Warbird would look good in federation Liveries.

There's a painting by Andrew Probert (wish I could find a link) depicting the launch of the 1701-D, flanked by several other ships, mostly Constitution & Excelsior classes. But one of the ships is a Klingon D7/K'tinga design updated with TNG Federation details and has a Starfleet livery. I'm pretty sure this painting was done early on in the TNG production, before we nailed down the fact that the Klingons were still a separate empire.

As far as the series bible was concerned, the Klingons were Federation members until late Season 2. The thinking went that having former enemies as partners would illustrate just how far the Federation had come since the Original Series and Films (Worf wasn't a senior officer in the first season, but he was a main cast member because he represented "diversity"), but the temptation and opportunity for Klingon shenanigans turned out to be too great for the writers to follow through.

The curious thing about Starfleet and it's relationship with Fed races/members is that no single real-life organization has the variety of roles or scope of jurisdiction that SF is shown/thought to have.. We're all familiar with the notion that it's part USGS, part USNavy, but it's really confounding when you find that it's also part CIA and FBI.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

^ And Coast Guard, and Space Program, and DARPA, and the CDC, and the Peace Corps.

I'm thinking maybe different Federation members specialize in different aspects of Starfleet's role and maybe humans are merely over-represented in the exploration missions because we're the only ones stupid enough to probe that far into space without any backup.

 

[Sci]

And has it occurred to you that other races like the Vulcans and Andorians might've preferred serving aboard Earth designed ships because they did not wish to give up design secrets and technology of their own vessels?

Who's to say that most Federation starships are of "Earth" design?

Most Federation starships look to me like they have a mixed lineage -- a saucer descended from Earth and/or Tellarite designs; a cylindrical engineering hull that looks descended from Andorian starships; a dorsal hull and vertical alignment that looks like it's descended from Vulcan ships.

 

[Methos]

typically i'd guess it's because it's destinctive as being Federation...

You don't need to double check the information after seeing the ship, just at a glance you can tell it's Starfleet you're dealing with and not the Vulcans, Klingons, Andorians or whoever... The crew and captains are obviously proud to be serving in Starfleet, so having a unique ship design that stands out as being solely Starfleet makes sense in a galaxy filled with warp capable ships...

M

 

[Irishman]

...Also, while the titular ship of Star Trek:Enterprise looks completely unlike her Vulcan counterparts, she was supposedly designed with Vulcan help. For all we know, the traditional "Starfleet look" of saucer hulls is actually a Vulcan invention, while two nacelles is a generic way to get warp (also popular with e.g. Klingons, Romulans and Orions) and rarely worth swapping for Vulcan or Ferengi style configurations.

Alternately, we could claim that Archer's Enterprise was built with Andorian or Tellarite know-how, specifically so that Earthlings could thumb their noses at Vulcans. That would be something of a conspiracy theory, though, as Archer himself didn't appear versed in Andorians or Tellarites. But choose some other race eager to trade with the primitive Earthlings in the early 22nd century, exchanging worthless baubles such as starship designs for priceless treasures from the natives such as local booze.

Personally, though, I rather disliked the ENT idea that ships of the classic Starfleet silhouette would have been introduced before the Federation was. I'd much rather have seen them as the result of cooperation between different cultures. With their multiple haphazardly connected components, they do look as if designed by a committee!

Timo Saloniemi

Your post reminds me of that ship from the Enterprise episode entitled "Storm Front, Part 2", one of many ships that flew out to meet the returning heroes. I think the only identification of it anywhere was by the art department as "Sarajevo, Elite Observation Craft". It may have been a John Eaves design. It certainly has his asthetic.

 

[starfox]

Wouldn't you think the feds would be using designs by other races?

Having a common design aesthetic across your fleet gives the following advantages:

• You only have to train your cadets once
• You can stock modular, interchangeable parts
• You can leverage economies of scale
• Your software will be more reliable if there's only a limited variety of hardware it has to support (the Apple paradigm) -- and bugs will get fixed faster because everyone will be using the same hardware/software, exposing bugs sooner
• Starship kitbashes become practical (at least by TV series logic... nevermind that the turboshafts have to be widened and moved a couple meters to line up between the Intrepid-class primary hull and Constitution-class secondary hull...)

 

[Timo]

"Sarajevo, Elite Observation Craft". It may have been a John Eaves design. It certainly has his asthetic.

This ship?

http://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x10/Daedalus_532.JPG

Here's Eaves' own dirt on it (as in "quick and dirty"):

http://johneaves.wordpress.com/2009/09/30/the-sarajevo-and-the-burning-vessel-of-54/

I sort of like the idea that the first few decades of Starfleet would have seen lots of such "nonstandard" designs in use, some being merely repainted ships from the member cultures, some making use of member culture design philosophies in newbuilding. As the result, all the fanfic ideas on old ships would be true - for a brief while. It would simply be pared down to the saucer-and-nacelles with time, perhaps for the above reasons, perhaps simply because Starfleet wanted its own aesthetic for sheer promotional reasons.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MacLeod]

We see examples of this in today's military, even the U.S. uses European harrier jets and such. Wouldn't you think the feds would be using designs by other races? maybe selling surplus mirandas to the klingons or ferengi?

The British Harrier Jump Jet was rather unique in that it was the only operational VSTOL fighter. As other planes built by the US didn't have this feaure it was more a case of ours can't do this so we will use an allies which can. Of course the Harrier is in the process of being replaced by the F-35 Lightning II. Which had multi-national partners involved in is development. With the US being the primary, the UK a Level 1 partner, with various other nations falling into Level 2 and 3

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I have to wonder, why would they need to?

When you have the knowledge and technology from 150+ species at your disposal to design and build ships, why go elsewhere?

So the general ship design follows early Earth Starfleet principles (who themselves managed to look forwar din time 200 years to get inspiration), but that is just the ships we're seen on screen. Who knows how many classes out there and how different they look?

It's about substance, not style.