Whats wrong with Engineering in the modern Era? and how to fix it?

[Farscape One]

She might be. It's a ship of 80 (now) to 180 (S1 & 2) crew, so a Lt j.g. might be enough to run the medical department. DS9 had about 300 residents in the early seasons (probably many more as it went on), and the CMO was a Lt j.g. straight out of the Academy.

The one issue, of course, is rank. If the CMO is a Lt. j.g., then why do we see one Commander (METMTSMGM) and a Lieutenant Commander (Culber) working on her staff? The answer is likely specialties. If the Commander was a specialist in xenobiology, or something, he might not be directly under her. Culber, of course, works in sickbay, and at one point assists the CMO in a surgical operation. But, we don't know his exact title or position. Could Pollard be in charge of the medical administration onboard the ship, but Culber just be the chief of surgery? Could he have transferred from a higher position on another ship to be with his husband on the front lines of the War, despite his rank?

Maybe. I think the medical staff might not pay as much heed to rank as the other departments (specifically security and command), as they likely take into account experience and talent outside of Starfleet.

Regarding rank for the CMO position, it should be noted that when Bashir was first assigned to DS9, it was essentially a backwater installation with a minimal Starfleet presence, so a Lt. j.g. is not only possible, I find it likely. This would be his first assignment for his career, get good experience, and move on to a bigger assignment. Then the wormhole was discovered, and it got bigger credibility and became essential as the Dominion situation escalated.

Discovery, at the time it was launched, was pretty state of the art, so having a Lt. j.g. as CMO is unlikely. Especially with the high amount of Commanders and Lt. Commanders onboard. DS9, at first, really only had two Starfleet officers higher ranked than Bashir... Sisko and Dax. I'm sure there were a few other full Lts. around in the background, but not many. Even in later seasons, and Bashir became a full Lt., we only saw a handful of higher ranks assigned there... Sisko, Dax, Worf, and Eddington. Even during the War, it didn't seem like many higher ones were assigned there, and the few we saw were likely from passing ships.

 

[1001001]

Gentle reminder: No spoilers for Lower Decks or Discovery Season 3.

Thanks

 

[RichT]

Stamets was identified by a computer display recently as Chief Engineer, which wouldn't appear to be the case but if we apply the 'it appeared on screen' rule then I guess that's what he is.

From Memory Alpha:

"A graphic seen in "Choose Your Pain" referred to Stamets as the chief engineer, but Ted Sullivan discarded this as a production mistake, quipping, "I'd say he's the chief engineer of spore drive but not of engineering."

So while it did appear on screen, the production team said this was a mistake, and isn't supposed to be the case. It's therefore possible that Discovery has multiple chief engineers, as the Enterprise-D apparently did in season one of TNG. Stamets would presumably be the the chief of spore drive engineering, and given how she's clashed with Stamets this season Reno would most likely be the current chief of warp drive engineering. There might be others for the chief of crazy turbolift fairground engineering or whatever. Going on the TNG example, all the chief engineers would then report in to the XO, who would have ultimate responsibility for all of the ship's drive systems.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Remember the Discovery crew was put together by Lorca from everyone he'd need to get back to the mirror universe and overthrow Georgiou. There's likely a lot of deliberate weirdness going on.

 

[kkt]

You must really hate Chief O'Brien ordering ensigns and lieutenants around as Chief of Operations then eh?

I'm not Unionized Elf, and hate is a really strong word.

However, I do think O'Brien ought to have been commissioned. He's in overall charge of engineering including three shifts of assistants - even if at the beginning the night shift might have been only 1 or 2 people. The station required him to gradually replace Cardassian with Federation engineering technology, yet without taking the whole station out of service for a few months to yank out all the Cardassian stuff. He had to work on ships from all over - Federation and Bajoran, sure, but also Klingon and Romulan and never seen before designs from the Gamma Quadrant like Tosk's. Also he was in charge of retrofitting heftier shields and weapons arrays onto the station. If I were writing the series, at the beginning of the series he would have just finished Officer Candidate School and been made a lieutenant and then promoted at least once as the station got busier around season 3 or 4. No way should he be junior to Dr. Bashir or Jadzia, who have just gotten their first starfleet assignments in season 1.

 

[RichT]

It is annoying that the whole "enlisted crew vs officers" thing was very much an afterthought and never thought through at all. "As soon as that kid [Nog] graduates from the Academy, I'm going to have to call him 'sir'," O'Brien famously said in one episode – and in what universe is it reasonable to expect a man with O'Brien's skills, experience, and length of service to call a raw Academy graduate "sir"?

 

[Angry Fanboy]

It is annoying that the whole "enlisted crew vs officers" thing was very much an afterthought and never thought through at all. "As soon as that kid [Nog] graduates from the Academy, I'm going to have to call him 'sir'," O'Brien famously said in one episode – and in what universe is it reasonable to expect a man with O'Brien's skills, experience, and length of service to call a raw Academy graduate "sir"?

The system has worked pretty well for a long time in all fairness.

 

[kkt]

The system has worked pretty well for a long time in all fairness.

I don't think CPOs in the real world have the range of expertise and responsibility that O'Brien does.

 

[fireproof78]

Well, O'Brien did start out as a lieutenant in early TNG

That said, once the war started a field promotion to lieutenant wouldn't have been out of the question.

It is annoying that the whole "enlisted crew vs officers" thing was very much an afterthought and never thought through at all. "As soon as that kid [Nog] graduates from the Academy, I'm going to have to call him 'sir'," O'Brien famously said in one episode – and in what universe is it reasonable to expect a man with O'Brien's skills, experience, and length of service to call a raw Academy graduate "sir"?

That is the current universe we live in, at least in the US Military academies. The flip side of it is that officers can learn to recognize their senior NCOs as being smarter and more experienced and look to them for advice and support. As I understand it, having not served but discussed at length with uncles who were both noncoms and officers, smart officers will use their noncoms to their the benefit of their outfit.

 

[The Wormhole]

I don't think CPOs in the real world have the range of expertise and responsibility that O'Brien does.

If you want a real world precedent, the Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy is the highest position enlisted personnel can achieve, responsible for all enlisted personnel in the Navy in much the same way the CNO is responsible for the Navy overall. And yet, the MCPON is still required to salute newly graduated ensigns and call them "Sir."

 

[Angry Fanboy]

With regards to Chief O'Brien he doesn't come across as someone who is particularly concerned about his place in the pecking order - he's basically a blue-collar worker who wants to do his job, which he's very good at, clock off and go for a drink or spend time with the kids etc.

Rank and authority aren't the driving forces for everyone, and I'd respectfully disagree with Lieutenant Commander Eddington that everyone joins Starfleet to be a starship captain - people on the command track fair enough, but nurses, engineers, doctors? I doubt it.

 

[fireproof78]

Eddington would not be considered a reliable narrator, by my estimation.

 

[Timo]

More like a shrewd player: he was trying to suck up to Captain Sisko at the time (and succeeding)!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Angry Fanboy]

Even putting Eddington aside, does everyone join the Navy to become a ship captain? Of course not.