What's the Big Lesson in STXI?
- Thread starter Anticitizen
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Another lesson I learned from this movie is that butthurt Trek internet fanboys can provide tons of great laugh material.
Pretty much, yeah.
I certainly liked Kirk a good deal better than I've liked most Star Trek characters - he doesn't have stick up his ass and he's not a bore.
Biggest lesson I got from the film?
If you walk around with an arrogant, smug, sense of entitlement, eventually everything will fall into your lap, including captaincy of a Starship while still a cadet.
Okay, I joke, at least somewhat (I really liked the movie, honest). But it did annoy me that for most of the movie everyone was telling Kirk how special he was (Pike and Spock in particular), about his destiny to be a great man, and how he absolutely had to be in command. Frankly, I would have liked more evidence of him earning the captaincy, and not just taking it because it was fated to be.
Yeah, yeah, he saved Earth and all that. But that had almost as much to do with Spock (future and present), Pike, and the rest of the crew than it did Kirk. Except for his one decision to chase the Narrada rather than rejoin the fleet, everything we saw was a group effort. And I certainly didn't see much example of the man who supposedly "aced the aptitude tests", unless you're talking about the Kobiyashi Maru test (where he cheated).
If you walk around with an arrogant, smug, sense of entitlement, eventually everything will fall into your lap, including captaincy of a Starship while still a cadet.
Okay, I joke, at least somewhat (I really liked the movie, honest). But it did annoy me that for most of the movie everyone was telling Kirk how special he was (Pike and Spock in particular), about his destiny to be a great man, and how he absolutely had to be in command. Frankly, I would have liked more evidence of him earning the captaincy, and not just taking it because it was fated to be.
Yeah, yeah, he saved Earth and all that. But that had almost as much to do with Spock (future and present), Pike, and the rest of the crew than it did Kirk. Except for his one decision to chase the Narrada rather than rejoin the fleet, everything we saw was a group effort. And I certainly didn't see much example of the man who supposedly "aced the aptitude tests", unless you're talking about the Kobiyashi Maru test (where he cheated).
Ah, but the Big Lesson was introduced in the very beginning with The Cage - man would sooner die than live in captivity, even if all his needs and wants are supplied to him. Or, to quote Milton by way of Khan, it's 'better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven'.
Every TOS movie has given us a Big Idea or Big Lesson in its storytelling.
TMP taught us that raw information and logic without The Human Experience (tm) makes for a lonely, purposeless existence.
TWOK taught us about life, death, sacrifice, youth, aging, and the dangers of being blinded by revenge.
TSFS taught us that 'the needs of the few' can 'outweigh the needs of the many', and that cheating/breaking the rules can lead to downfall (David's use of protomatter).
TVH taught us to save the whales. Okay, it's a cheesy one, but there nonethelessMore generally, take care of the environment.
TFF taught us that pain is a part of our being, gives us strength, makes us who we are. And, that a real god probably doesn't need a starship.
TUC taught us to look beyond our prejudices and differences in the quest for peace.
Part of essential Trek storytelling has always been The Big Lesson, from the earliest episodes of TOS onward.
What is the Big Idea or Big Lesson in STXI?
Hot young people, lots of explosions and wall-to-wall noise make big bank.
There is a reason people say these things. Star Trek may be light fare compared to, say, Dostoyevski, but it certainly was a cut above the typical Western. Check out what it was running against: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_in_television It also contained the novelty that many of the stories it told had never been told, and indeed couldn't be told outside of the science fiction medium. Take Devil in the Dark, for instance.
I have 'The Quotable Star Trek' sitting on my toilet tank, and I don't have any toy phasers, so...
I think you're describing the more... expressive arm of the fandom.
In any case, 'battle scenes' and exchanges of phaser fire really didn't happen in TOS. People who were stunned rarely had a chance to shoot back, and in the space battles, 90% of the time, we never even saw the enemy ship the Enterprise was supposed to be shooting at. They didn't have much in the way of special effects back then, so they had to tell a story instead.
"Stick up his a$$" - Pompus
Pompus - Characterized by excessive self-esteem or exaggerated dignity
Are we talking about the same Kirk here?
"Stick up his ass" means cold; unapproachable; aloof; formal; no fun; always on. Frankly, Spock in TOS could've been seen this way if he were human. But I think the reference as it's used by Dennis refers to another Trek captain we all know, but I'm guessing.
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So basically what your saying is unless someone gives you a message you can not find one on your own.
sorry that seems how it comes out. I have messages in my life all the time. I had parents who instilled in me what it was to see what was going on in the outside world. I don't need a tv show to tell me it's alright to have friends with different ideas or skin tones. That love is a strange thing that has it's own rules. That violence for violences sake is stupid. I didn't need liturature or television to tell me this. I observed the world around me. I see and I process because I'm alive and can think.
This movie has themes in it of Friendship, revenge, finding one's place, and the whole Nature vs Nurture aspect of it with Kirk and Spock, but it's not as Hamfisted as "Let this be your Last Battlefield." It's not as overbearing as Insurrection tried to be. It was trying to do first and foremost what TOS always tried to do, entertain.
And Jayl, Kirk has always been a douche-bag, but to paraphrase Die Hard 2, He was just your kind of Douche-bag.
Omega_Glory
Commodore
I would have to second that!
But you guys are making a wrong assumption because it's not just a summer Popcorn flick. Especially since people have pointed out themes in the movie.
Let go of your hate, hate leads to anger and anger leads to the dark side of the for... Oh wait wrong franchise...
Oh, boy! Casablanca quotes!
Spock Prime: Do you know how you sound, Jim? Like a man who's trying to convince himself of something he doesn't believe in his heart. Each of us has a destiny - for good or for evil.
Kirk: I get the point.
Spock Prime: I wonder if you do. I wonder if you know that you're trying to escape from yourself, and that you'll never succeed.
Kirk: You seem to know all about my destiny.
^^^^^^^^^^^
That's the conversation Spock Prime and Kirk should've had in the cave. Spock Prime is Laszlo. Kirk is obviously Rick.
And, when Kirk sat in the captain's chair as captain, he could've uttered, "It seems that destiny has taken a hand."
See? It's true. Every movie in the world does relate back to Casablanca.
Edited to add: upon further review, the Laszlo-Rick conversation would've worked well in the bar, too. Just give Spock Prime's lines to Pike.
Pike: Do you know how you sound, Mr. Kirk? Like a man who's trying to convince himself of something he doesn't believe in his heart. Each of us has a destiny - for good or for evil.
Kirk: I get the point.
Pike: I wonder if you do. I wonder if you know that you're trying to escape from yourself, and that you'll never succeed.
Kirk: You seem to know all about my destiny.
Excellent.I may have said it in a funny way, but my point was serious. The movie is about the beginning of some very beautiful friendships. That's enough message for me. Just as important a theme as any other we've had.
We cannot judge this movie by the same standards of those which came before - this movie had the hefty job of setting up an alternate universe - that takes time. Not much room left for anything else. Still, they were able to cover some serious ground - I like the emphasis on the friendship between Kirk and Spock, the juxtaposing of their respective birth and early lives, for example. This movie worked hard to make us understand why they were destined to mesh. They were both outsiders, and very damaged, in their own way. How they come to accept and perhaps heal one another, through sincere friendship, was an important path to follow.
The only problem with accepting that as a major 'theme' of the movie is that this didn't happen. We saw Kirk and McCoy meet, but in place of watching them become friends, we got a 'Three Years Later' titlecard. And with Spock... well... Kirk and Spock weren't likely to reconcile at all, given the events, until Spock Prime showed up and basically just told Kirk to do it.
Classic Kirk is not a douchebag! I understand how he gets this reputation but this is not deserved! Just as it's often proclaimed that he always disregarded orders and didn't consult with the crew...he just did whatever the hell he wanted. You watch TOS looking out for these things and you'll see that it doesn't exist...of course yes on occassion but on the whole the Kirk character is nowhere near a douchebag -- Prime Kirk that is!!!
Ok, so they throw out the plot and just leave in the sex. Good work all around.
I disagree on almost all accounts here; what makes many of these episodes great and memorable were not the action scenes or effects, it is the humanistic moments.
Khan: The theme of mortality and sacrifice as portrayed throughout the film, beginning with Tale of Two Cities being given to an aging Kirk who cannot read it without glasses (which also play a symbolic role throughout the movie) by his friend Spock, and later quoted by Kirk as he and Carol are looking out over the Genesis planet.
First Contact: Deals primarily with the need to maintain our humanity even when faced with inhumane enemies and against all odds. A wonderful humanistic tale for contemporary culture when some of the most ancient cultures on earth have been converted into faceless Borg drones by certain political entities.
Best of Both Worlds: Riker's struggle within himself when faced with the precocious Shelby. Has he lost his edge or hasn't he? The final scene when suddenly Shelby cannot make the right choice and wants to go back and save the Captain, while Riker looks into his friend's eyes and makes his command decision is what makes this episode so classic.
NOW, where are the humanistic moments that bring out the same quality of emotion within the viewer in the new movie?
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