What's the best kind of new TV to watch old shows?

[The Borgified Corpse]

Greetings!

The TV that I have in my bedroom is getting on in years. (It's at least 22 years old, if not more.) So, I've been looking to get a new one. Nothing too fancy & nothing too big, probably in the 15"-24" range. Most of what I watch is old TV shows, often shows that were shot & edited on video (i.e. classic Doctor Who, Red Dwarf, Mystery Science Theater 3000). I have some friends with super advanced HD TVs and the picture on those old shows looks like crap, much worse than it does on my old CRT TVs. Is there any particular kind of new TV that is considered better when it comes to concealing the picture flaws on those old shows?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Nope.

New TVs make old shows look like low res crap.

More so if you've ever downloaded actual low res crap, it's even crappier and unusable, and you finally now have an excuse to levelup to 4kp bluray.

 

[bbailey861]

The only thing you have going for you is that a 24" screen will be far better than watching old shows on a 60". We have a 27" in the bedroom and that's where we watch anything that we have to on SD. It's by no means perfect, but it does the job.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I know my Dish remote can change the resolution (SD normal, HD normal, SD with gray bars, etc.) so things aren't stretched.

Do TV's have similar abilities? If they do, you can have a 60" and make older SD stuff the proper size & ratio.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

The only way I've found satisfactory is to watch SD on a tablet or in a small window on my PC.

 

[jayceee]

Nope.

New TVs make old shows look like low res crap.

More so if you've ever downloaded actual low res crap, it's even crappier and unusable, and you finally now have an excuse to levelup to 4kp bluray.

Definitely.

At this point, there's only really two options to watch old stuff on large hd screens without looking really crappy, neither of which are satisfactory.

1 - Buy the bluray versions of old shows, which were remastered from the original film elements. (Such as Star Trek TNG). Unfortunately this is a very expensive way, and there are not many old catalog shows released on bluray.

2 - Find HD cable (or satellite) channels which feature reruns of old shows, where they are using hd remasters.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

Greetings!

The TV that I have in my bedroom is getting on in years. (It's at least 22 years old, if not more.) So, I've been looking to get a new one. Nothing too fancy & nothing too big, probably in the 15"-24" range. Most of what I watch is old TV shows, often shows that were shot & edited on video (i.e. classic Doctor Who, Red Dwarf, Mystery Science Theater 3000). I have some friends with super advanced HD TVs and the picture on those old shows looks like crap, much worse than it does on my old CRT TVs. Is there any particular kind of new TV that is considered better when it comes to concealing the picture flaws on those old shows?

You have three choices to watch SD material at its best...

Look for a used CRT TV on ebay and the like. There are loads, they're cheap, and when one dies you can just get another.

If you're lucky, some independent electronics shops will suddenly find old stock of CRT TVs that have been lying around for years and try and get rid of them cheap. Some guy found this in a UK shop in 2014

Import. They still make new CRTs in the developing world. Of course you have to figure out the exchange rate with Indian rupees, plus whether the cost of shipping plus import duties is worth it.

Me, I'd get a small LCD panel. But then again, I'm still nursing a 25" JVC 4:3 TV that's almost 30 years old, and a 28" widescreen Sony Trinitron that's over 20 years for watching SD stuff on. Watching SD broadcast material on my HD TV makes my eyes hurt.

 

[jayceee]

Another option that is also somewhat expensive and requires some tinkering, is to run MadVR on a new cutting edge computer. (ie. Something that a hardcore pc gamer would buy for performance).

(Google MadVR if you want to wade through those waters).

Even on an old hunk of junk pc, MadVR (with the minimal settings) on SD resolution content (ie. dvd) looks somewhat better than the generic built-in upscaling circuits on many dvd/bluray players. This is what I've been using to watch my dvds on the computer connected to my large screen tv with an hdmi cable.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

At this point, there's only really two options to watch old stuff on large hd screens without looking really crappy, neither of which are satisfactory.

1 - Buy the bluray versions of old shows, which were remastered from the original film elements. (Such as Star Trek TNG). Unfortunately this is a very expensive way, and there are not many old catalog shows released on bluray.

2 - Find HD cable (or satellite) channels which feature reruns of old shows, where they are using hd remasters.

Neither of which are applicable for a lot of the shows that I watch. Old Red Dwarf & Doctor Who weren't shot on film, they were shot on video. For the most part, there aren't any original film elements to remaster. (Classic Doctor Who did shoot some scenes on film interspersed with the scenes on video but the original film elements are frequently unavailable. In fact, even the original master videotapes are missing for all of Seasons 1-6 and much of Seasons 7 & 8 as well. What we have left is 2nd generation film copies made off of crappy telecine machines. And even then, there are almost a hundred episodes from the 1st 6 seasons where we don't even have that.)

I'm wondering if maybe I should just get my current TV fixed. It mostly works very well. The problem is, when I first turn it on, the image doesn't fill the entire screen. There are horizontal bars of blank space covering about 0.5" at the top of the screen and 2" at the bottom. As the set warms up, the top of the screen eventually fills in but there's still about an inch of blank space at the bottom.

 

[publiusr]

My old Emerson CRT just does green.

I wish folks still made tube televisions

 

[tomswift2002]

I don't know what jayceee was talking about with HD stations using HD masters for older shows, since those stations are just upressing old 3/4-Inch composite U-Matics or component Betacam SP or Digital Betacam dubs whenever they air old shows. Plus sitcoms from the 70's, like "Three's Company", "Alf" and "Home Improvement" were shot and edited on 480i video, and in the case of "Three's Company" it was composite video tape, so there are no higher masters available. Even a number of shows that were shot and edited on film (such as the 60's Dragnet and Adam-12) are still being aired (and the DVD's are still being made) from the U-Matics that were created in the 70's/early-80's (and in the case of the third season of the Hardy Boys/Nancy Drew Mysteries those u-matics were made from the 16mm syndication prints and not the original 35mm prints). Sure shows like Star Trek TOS & TNG are available in HD, but those are rarities. Aside from the X-Files, I can only think of "Babylon 5, The Twilight Zone and Disney's Zorro and a few select episodes of Walt Disney Presents ("Dr. Syn", but even with Zorro, these were only done due to their inclusion in the Walt Disney Treasures line))being available in HD for TV stations.

But I find that for SD material, if it's coming from DVD then a PS3 does a great job upressing DVD's to HD on my 40-inch LCD. Just using the upscaler in my TV is okay, however the de-interlacing of 480i stuff lags a tiny bit, especially if you are using composite or S-Video, so on extremely fast scenes from VHS or RF I'll see a combing effect from the video being interlaced. LCD's and Plasma's are progressive scan TV's so if you can get your 480i material de-interlaced and or upscaled to 480p, 720p or 1080p before the signal reaches your TV you'll have a much better picture.

 

[jayceee]

I don't know what jayceee was talking about with HD stations using HD masters for older shows

As an example, CBS has been doing newer HD transfers for some of their catalog shows.

http://syndicationbible.cbstvd.com/

For example, shows like Dynasty, Perry Mason, the original Mission Impossible, the original Odd Couple, the original Hawaii Five-O, Gomer Pyle, Hogans Heroes, etc ...

The question is whether any hd channels are actually airing any of these HD remastered versions. This I don't know offhand.

I don't have any stations on my cable service, which do reruns of these CBS shows with hd masters. (The only CBS catalog show I've been watching in reruns recently, is Matlock. Matlock doesn't appear to have been remastered in HD, and the CBS syndication bible indicates it has not been transferred to HD).

 

[jayceee]

however the de-interlacing of 480i stuff lags a tiny bit, especially if you are using composite or S-Video, so on extremely fast scenes from VHS or RF I'll see a combing effect from the video being interlaced. LCD's and Plasma's are progressive scan TV's so if you can get your 480i material de-interlaced and or upscaled to 480p, 720p or 1080p before the signal reaches your TV you'll have a much better picture.

My standalone dvd/bluray players seem to have problems with sources which have a "hard telecine", where the "comb effect" can be seen easily. Especially in conjunction with upscaling to 1080p.

I usually watch my dvds on the computer connected to the large screen tv, with a dvd player program which does the "inverse telecine" decently. Even in fast scenes, the "inverse telecine" in combination with upscaling to 720p (or 1080p), looks a lot smoother.

 

[jayceee]

Sure shows like Star Trek TOS & TNG are available in HD, but those are rarities.

ST:TOS seems to be primarily the hd remastered versions in reruns on my cable service. (I actually prefer the older versions with the old style fx).

ST:TNG is a different story on my cable service. As far as I can tell, season 1 appears to be the hd remastered version. (ie. They look like the bluray versions). But the rest of the seasons appear to be the older SD versions. (ie. They look worse than the bluray versions).

 

[Marc]

I don't know what jayceee was talking about with HD stations using HD masters for older shows

As an example, CBS has been doing newer HD transfers for some of their catalog shows.

http://syndicationbible.cbstvd.com/

For example, shows like Dynasty, Perry Mason, the original Mission Impossible, the original Odd Couple, the original Hawaii Five-O, Gomer Pyle, Hogans Heroes, etc ...

The question is whether any hd channels are actually airing any of these HD remastered versions. This I don't know offhand.

I don't have any stations on my cable service, which do reruns of these CBS shows with hd masters. (The only CBS catalog show I've been watching in reruns recently, is Matlock. Matlock doesn't appear to have been remastered in HD, and the CBS syndication bible indicates it has not been transferred to HD).

I wonder if CBS wants more money for the HD remastered versions/new licencing so cable stations stick with what they have already becasue it's cheaper.

 

[Kor]

I know my Dish remote can change the resolution (SD normal, HD normal, SD with gray bars, etc.) so things aren't stretched.

Do TV's have similar abilities? If they do, you can have a 60" and make older SD stuff the proper size & ratio.

It depends on the make and model of TV.

I would also say, let the TV do the upscaling, and leave devices such as blu ray/dvd players, cable boxes, set to automatic resolution.

Kor

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Greetings!

The TV that I have in my bedroom is getting on in years. (It's at least 22 years old, if not more.) So, I've been looking to get a new one. Nothing too fancy & nothing too big, probably in the 15"-24" range. Most of what I watch is old TV shows, often shows that were shot & edited on video (i.e. classic Doctor Who, Red Dwarf, Mystery Science Theater 3000). I have some friends with super advanced HD TVs and the picture on those old shows looks like crap, much worse than it does on my old CRT TVs. Is there any particular kind of new TV that is considered better when it comes to concealing the picture flaws on those old shows?

May I suggest buying an LCD projector instead? That might work with these older shows.

 

[tomswift2002]

I don't know what jayceee was talking about with HD stations using HD masters for older shows

As an example, CBS has been doing newer HD transfers for some of their catalog shows.

http://syndicationbible.cbstvd.com/

For example, shows like Dynasty, Perry Mason, the original Mission Impossible, the original Odd Couple, the original Hawaii Five-O, Gomer Pyle, Hogans Heroes, etc ...

The question is whether any hd channels are actually airing any of these HD remastered versions. This I don't know offhand.

I looked into "Hawaii Five-O", and there are only 209 episodes out of the nearly 300 that were made that have been "Digitally Re-Transferred". And from what CBS's syndication bible is saying, the 209 Digital episodes are available on Betacam SP, with 175 available on 1-inch and 3/4 inch tape.

And, apparently episodes 6801 to 6822 are the only episodes available for HD in a "special HD 41:00 runtime". And there's no mention of the episodes being remastered. Just re-transferred, whether this means a transfer from the original film. or they just upscaled the SD masters to HD, they do not say.

Even with Star Trek The Next Generation CBS lists it as a "Partial Transfer", while Star Trek The Animated Series is available only in HD, and Star Trek TOS is fully available in HD and SD, and in a variety of options for HD (including what they call "Tilt & Scan" 16x9). None of the Treks have what tape formats they are available on listed.

Plus I checked another older TV series, Have Gun, Will Travel and it showed that only the 108 episodes of Seasons 4 to 6 are in HD, while the rest of the series is only available on 1 inch, 3/4 inch and Betacam SP. Even the original Twilight Zone is showing Betacam SP availability only, even though it's noted that there is a Network HD version available.

I've also checked other series like Little House On the Prairie, Get Smart, The Beverly Hillbillies & Barnaby Jones are either only available in SD, or in the case of the Hillbillies and Jones only certain seasons or episodes are available in HD (surprisingly Season 2 of Hillbillies is listed as being available in HD, considering that 19 episodes from that season are in the public domain, which can explain why, when I recently ran across a Season 1 episode on YES TV HD, it was an upconverted SD).

 

[jayceee]

(surprisingly Season 2 of Hillbillies is listed as being available in HD, considering that 19 episodes from that season are in the public domain, which can explain why, when I recently ran across a Season 1 episode on YES TV HD, it was an upconverted SD).

For the most part, there's no point in doing an extensive restoration of something already in the public domain. All the repackagers of pd stuff (ie. Mill Creek, Echo Bridge, etc ...), will probably end up taking it for their $1 titles.

But with that being said. One case of a public domain title which had some restoration done, which I can think of offhand, is the Fleischer Superman shorts from the 1940s. The episodes which came with the 4-disc Superman 1 dvd set, had better picture quality than the previous pd version.

 

[jayceee]

For deinterlacing of dvds where the original source is not 24 or 25 frames-per-second, the easiest way to get a relatively smooth picture is to run something like yadif x2 on videolan (or video mode yadif on "media player classic"), on a fast enough computer.

I primarily use videolan running yadif x2 deinterlacing, whenever I watch old 70s-80s sitcoms like Barney Miller, Archie Bunker, Diff'Rent Strokes, etc ... (The picture quality of these dvd titles weren't that great).

On dvd content that was originally 24 frames-per-second, yadif x2 appears to crank out the progressive frames, along with repeating each progressive frame where one frame is repeated 2 times and the next frame is repeated 3 times, ad nauseam repeating in the same rhythm of 2 times and 3 times. (In total, all these frames would correspond to cranking out 60 frames per second, from something that was originally 24 frames-per-second).