What's keeping me out of the theatre....

[pookha]

I didn't expect this to be TOS. I expected a different interpretation. What I would hope for was although different it could still appeal in a different way. I was gravely disappointed.

What I see going on throughout many threads and forums is: "I liked it and if you didn't then you're a blind, hating idiot." or "I didn't like it and if you did then you're a blind simplistic idiot."

Brutal Strudel and I seem to be more on a reasonable wavelength, here. He enjoyed the film although he can also see why folks like me could dislike it and that's okay with him. Conversely I didn't enjoy the film at all yet I can also see why it works for others and that's okay with me.

Is it a good film? The answer will be largely subjective because it's totally dependent on what you expect to get out of it and whether you perceive the elements you need to be entertained are there.

i am glad you are like that warped.

really i seen a lot of the converse..
that one is not a true star trek fan if they like the film.
they are ignorant of canon if they like the film and the pretty basic only morons like the film.

as i said else where i am fine if people express they dont like the film
(though i might debate certain points ) as long as they dont start in on those who do.

 

[Warped9]

People can like or dislike a film or episode or series for different reasons. You may not agree, but does that make them any less of a fan?

We all take something different and look for different things in creative work. And there may well be a tendency to define a "fan" as someone who sees it the same way or in just a particular way. Does that mean that anything outside of that perspective or definition isn't a real fan?

We can argue about what film or series producers did and whether they accomplished what they purported to be aiming for. But I think by the simple fact we're all here arguing it answers the question that we're all fans--it's just we may all be looking for slightly different things in varying measures to make us happy.


I admit that I've indulged in colourful adjectives with emotional overtones to express my disappointment with things. Expressing yourself that way can bother some who may take it personally because in a sense they might feel that if you attack something they like then they may perceive it as an attack upon them personally, even when none such thing is intended.

Over the years I've often taken issue with repeated critical remarks regarding something I've liked, remarks I've strongly resented. And it's not easy to resist reacting by reflex, but to pause and consider whether the remarks are directed at the subject or directed at me. I try to take the attitude that I really don't care whether others agree with what I like. It's not always easy, but I try.

 

[Forbin]

I still haven't seen it, but i've gotten a remarkable variety of reviews from many of my friends who were as cynical about it as I was before seeing it. Long-time classic trekkies in my circle run the gamut from loving it to hating it to "meh."

I'm still not sure when I'm gonna get the chance. It may be on DVD before I can get the time.

 

[Warped9]

I was extremely cyncal before seeing it, but I've been surprised before and I did wonder if there would be something I liked in the film after all. On some level I was disappointed that I didn't find anything to like.

What I really resent is the implication that you're flawed in some way because you liked or didn't like something many others do.

 

[Nardpuncher]

I think it's just suspect that someone who is a fan due to the original TV show (like me) is somehow completely unable to enjoy this new movie.
I think you didn't want to like it before it came out and made sure you didn't like it once you saw it.
You may say: " Look, people have different tastes and plain and simple this movie didn't appeal to me." Then all I do is wonder what you saw in the original Trek ( and perhaps TNG and stuff after) that you could see nothing of value in this movie.

The kind of person that would think this movie was poorly executed and the worst Trek movie made would probably not even be here in the first place...they'd be excited and a fan of some completely different TV show or movie.

 

[Warped9]

I see more in TNG than I saw in this film, and I'm critical of manyt things in TNG. I have issues with TWOK, TSFS, TUC and yet as flawed as they are they were superior to this movie.

Suspect all you want because I couldn't care less.

 

[Nardpuncher]

I see more in TNG than I saw in this film, and I'm critical of manyt things in TNG. I have issues with TWOK, TSFS, TUC and yet as flawed as they are they were superior to this movie.

Suspect all you want because I couldn't care less.

You see, the reason why so many people are asking you about this and commenting on it is because we can see that you're upset or whatever with the fact that the "c" word was Ved, to not put it so bluntly. So it doesn't end up feeling like an honest appraisal of the film.

I don't really care at all either...but it's important to be honest and say you didn't like the film because it changed the story of what came before.

Though, if you really haven't liked anything Trek since 1979, then I guess I couldsee how you wouldn't like it.
Some other people, on the other hand, are overstating themselves. The same way that Star Wars Epsiode I, a flawed movie, gets called the worst movie ever by a few folks. C'mon.

 

[Warped9]

I have liked things since 1979 (hey, I have some druthers about TOS and TAS and TMP), but I haven't like a lot of things in a consistent way since '79.

I've bben predisposed to like some films and then been disappointed when I saw them. Conversely I've also been predisposed to dislike some films only to learn they were better I had expected.

Okay, I liked ONE thing in this film: the shades of blue and red for the uniforms.

 

[Neopeius]

I think you didn't want to like it before it came out and made sure you didn't like it once you saw it.

That's silly. I went into Star Trek: First Contact completely expecting to hate it, actively bracing myself for suckage...

And I liked it a lot. I watched it again in the theaters.

It's possible to be surprised. Expecting to not like something does not preclude the possibility of enjoying something.

It's not that people who don't like Nu Trek are narrow-minded. We just think the movie sucks.

 

[Cakes488]

I think you didn't want to like it before it came out and made sure you didn't like it once you saw it.

That's silly. I went into Star Trek: First Contact completely expecting to hate it, actively bracing myself for suckage...

And I liked it a lot. I watched it again in the theaters.

It's possible to be surprised. Expecting to not like something does not preclude the possibility of enjoying something.

It's not that people who don't like Nu Trek are narrow-minded. We just think the movie sucks.

This is true...I really didn't expect to like this movie much if at all....I'm surprised by how much I did...was the movie perfect...oh hell no..... but it was much much better then I thought it was going to be and the next one MUST surpass it.

 

[Nardpuncher]

I think you didn't want to like it before it came out and made sure you didn't like it once you saw it.

That's silly. I went into Star Trek: First Contact completely expecting to hate it, actively bracing myself for suckage...

And I liked it a lot. I watched it again in the theaters.

It's possible to be surprised. Expecting to not like something does not preclude the possibility of enjoying something.

It's not that people who don't like Nu Trek are narrow-minded. We just think the movie sucks.

I never like saying stuff like open-minded and so forth, especially for things like a sci-fi summer movie, what I mean is that many people that were averse to the movie before it came out ended up hating the movie completely....I think some may have wanted to make sure they looked like they were right.

 

[Neopeius]

I never like saying stuff like open-minded and so forth, especially for things like a sci-fi summer movie, what I mean is that many people that were averse to the movie before it came out ended up hating the movie completely....I think some may have wanted to make sure they looked like they were right.

I would have been very happy to have been surprised. Oh well.

BTW, an example for me of a successful TV show to movie transition was Macross.

 

[Warped9]

This film reminds me of Galaxy Quest and the Futurama episode “Where No Fan Has Gone Before.” Both played to widely held caricatures of TOS, and yet they were aimed mostly at the fandom of the show rather than at the show itself.

This film also plays up the caricatured ideas the general public has of TOS, but this time it’s aimed right at the show itself rather than the fanbase. That’s how I see it. And you just might have gotten away with that if something else of actual substance had been involved. But with next to no intelligence in the film there is nothing else to consider.

Of the about dozen folks I know who’ve seen them film (including myself) only two liked it pretty much unconditionally. They’re in their early to mid 20s, like TNG and VOY and have little knowledge of TOS beyond perhaps a couple of the TOS derived films and glimpsing TOS on TV (I asked).

Six others enjoyed the film (in varying measure) and yet they also thought it ridiculous (in varying measures). And each of them said they could clearly see why others (like myself) could take issue with the film. The age group here varied from mid 20s to late 40s.

The remaining five (including myself) didn’t enjoy the film at all even though we could all see why it could appeal to others. The age group here was 30s to 50s.

A lot of the fuss has died down over the past years since I first used my current signature. Yet some still like to use my signature as something to dismiss my opinion in that they believe it means I’ve liked nothing since 1979 and so my view of anything post TOS is highly suspect. Incorrect. I haven’t liked anything Trek related consistently since ’79, but there are things I’ve liked sporadically.

So let’s clear this up some. And here’s roughly how I break it down:
TOS – 35% Excellent, 28% Good, 35% Average, 4% Poor (TOS hit the target 63% percent of the time, was okay 35% and blew it only 4% of the time)
TAS – 27% Excellent, 14% Good, 45% Average, 14% Poor (TAS hit the target 41%, was just okay 45% percent of the time and blew it only 14% of the time)
Films – 18% Good, 28% Average, 54% Poor (The films had some excellent moments, but overall they were just decent 46% of the time and stunk the rest of the time)
TNG – 4% Excellent, 26% Good, 41% Average, 29% Poor (TNG held me about 30% of the time, left me ambivalent 41% and bored me out of my mind the rest of the time. And for me the bulk of the decent stuff is mostly in the second and third seasons)

In regards to DS9 I liked about a third of the first two seasons and early third and thought the rest average and only a handful I thought poor. But from mid third season onward I just lost interest—I’d discovered Babylon 5 and never looked back. I can’t really say whether the rest of DS9 was average or poor, but I found much of it clumsily written and just boring. Now when I see reruns only a handful of episodes from the first two-and-half seasons can hold me. VOY I thought everything I’ve ever seen of it poor to incredibly mediocre at best. And I rate ENT exactly the same way including the much hyped fourth season.

Rating this isn’t really an exact science. Even a really good episode could have something to criticize while a bad episode could still have something to recommend it.

 

[Neopeius]

So let’s clear this up some. And here’s roughly how I break it down:
TOS – 35% Excellent, 28% Good, 35% Average, 4% Poor (TOS hit the target 63% percent of the time, was okay 35% and blew it only 4% of the time)

I thought this was such a good idea that I looked over my notes and came up with my own breakdown:

38% Very Good to Excellent, 29% Good, 15% Okay, 18% Poor

Pretty close agreement, I'd say. Except you truly disliked just 3 episodes where I didn't like 14.

 

[number6]

I think the people who don't like this film set themselves up to hate it. They had a certain criteria that they knew fully well wouldn't be met and went in to see it just to say "see? I was right."

What they are saying about the film is almost exactly the same as what they said about it before a single frame of film was shot, so I am not surprised that those same people don't like the film now. Predictable as a falling rock. Nothing to see here.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

I think the people who don't like this film set themselves up to hate it. They had a certain criteria that they knew fully well wouldn't be met and went in to see it just to say "see? I was right."

What they are saying about the film is almost exactly the same as what they said about it before a single frame of film was shot, so I am not surprised that those same people don't like the film now. Predictable as a falling rock. Nothing to see here.

Would you say the converse is true, that the people who have fallen in love with the film went in determined to love it regardless of what flaws it may have? The self fulfilling prophecy is a nice idea, but I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt.

I have seen films that I expected to hate and have wound up enamored of them, and the reverse has occured as well.

 

[number6]

I went into it because I was psyched about it. I wanted to see this new take on Star Trek because I loved the original show. Why would I go to and spend money to see a movie I was expecting to hate? That doesn't make any sense to me. Why would I go and post about it on a forum dedicated to the very thing I hate? That makes less sense to me. I post in TOS because I grew up a fan of the show. i don't really understand why anyone wouldn't be psyched about going back to this era with a new creative team. This is what dissenting fans have been clamouring for for decades.

These people don't really deserve the benefit of the doubt as they are only too quick to dismiss and insult anything new coming from the Trek camp and have been doing so ever since the show went off the air.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

There was a time when any Star Trek film would engender the same reaction in me, I would be psyched, and regardless of how that film would turn out, I'd be just as up for the next one. I was psyched about Nemesis believe it or not, even with the negative opinion floating around the Internet and less than favourable reviews. I came out of that cinema feeling that my pet dog had died.

Conversely, everything I read, I everything I heard about Daredevil, ripped the piss out of it. I was on a major superhero kick at the time, and anything in spandex would get my money. But the negative hype, the bad reviews, the Ben Affleck thing actually worked on me, and I refused to watch it. Until one day the Director's Cut DVD came my way. It's now a film I really enjoy and appreciate.

As you say, why would anyone spend money on a film they are determined to hate. I doubt that everyone who has a negative opinion about Star Trek 09 collectively decided to burn £10 that day, just so they would feel financially justified in their ire.
Even if you expect the worst, you hope for the best.

 

[Warped9]

If someone hold told me twenty-five years ago that I'd someday really dislike what was being done with Trek I'd likely have said, "Get outta here!"

Then I saw TVH, TFF, the first season of TNG and the downslide began.

Now I'd easily rather watch "The Infinite Vulcan" over Trek XI because TIV only has one WTF! moment in it.

 

[number6]

I was psyched about Nemesis. I didn't like it. This film has nothing to do with it. I don't buy into the "I was sooooo let down so many times before I couldn't possibly feel good about it any more" attitude everyone seems to have every time a new Trek project is announced.

I had no interest in seeing another Mission Impossible film after I saw the first one. I only saw the third one because it was an in-flight movie and my only other choice was to strangle the screaming child seated behind me. I enjoyed it.

I have never posted on a MI BBS talking about how much I hate the films and how doomed each one is to failure. I thought the whole Craig-Not-Bond thing was as stupid as it gets.

The only thing that ever tops this kind of crap is Trek Fandom.

You don't like it? Fine. Don't go. But to post endlessly about how you don't like something is a waste of energy. I didn't even know how much TOS sucked until I came here. Is this what fandom has become?? Loads of "What I hate about_____" threads??

Puhlease.. I am a fan of Star Trek. I enjoy the show and I have enjoyed the enduring fact that people want to keep making Star Trek and that they want to make it good. i don't have as big a problem with artistic license as long as the spirit of the original show is still alive. Trek XI accomplishes that in my mind.
It's not supposed to be Citizen Kane. The original show never was. To elevate the original show to the point where it could do nothing wrong is unreasonable and thus it is unreasonable to expect a film to live up to those standards. It sets it up for failure before it is even made.