What's keeping me out of the theatre....

[trevanian]

A bigoted crew member wanting Romulan ass?

Stiles, "Balance of Terror" (TOS)

You are absolutely right. I had forgotten that. I think I was focusing too much on the premise that in the Star Trek universe prejudice was a thing of the past.

I haven't seen the movie, so forgive me for injecting this viewpoint into the thread. But Stiles' motivation was a long family history, which is certainly as valid a motivation as any for characters in drama. As for the guy sitting next to wannabeKirk in the clip from Abrams, he strikes me as jingoisitic, making a comment in more of a 'I want RED DAWN to happen so I can realize my potential' kind of way, not as a serious valid character motivation.

Probably less motivated even than the assassins in TUC, who previously set the bar pretty low for the 'enlist in starfleet' / best o' the best tradition.

 

[Warped9]

Just wait until I actually see this film and post my assessment. I'll need fireproof protective gear.

 

[Cheebo]

A bigoted crew member wanting Romulan ass?

Stiles, "Balance of Terror" (TOS)

You are absolutely right. I had forgotten that. I think I was focusing too much on the premise that in the Star Trek universe prejudice was a thing of the past.

I haven't seen the movie, so forgive me for injecting this viewpoint into the thread. But Stiles' motivation was a long family history, which is certainly as valid a motivation as any for characters in drama. As for the guy sitting next to wannabeKirk in the clip from Abrams, he strikes me as jingoisitic, making a comment in more of a 'I want RED DAWN to happen so I can realize my potential' kind of way, not as a serious valid character motivation.

Probably less motivated even than the assassins in TUC, who previously set the bar pretty low for the 'enlist in starfleet' / best o' the best tradition.

wannabeKirk

Chris Pine IS James T. Kirk. Every essence of the man Jim Kirk is in Chris Pine's pitch perfect portrayal.


The way he says Bones at the end and his swagger to the chair in the gold uniform and then sitting down cross-legged....it's Kirk. Not a new Kirk, or "wannabe" Kirk. But James T. Kirk.

 

[ST-One]

A bigoted crew member wanting Romulan ass?

Stiles, "Balance of Terror" (TOS)

You are absolutely right. I had forgotten that. I think I was focusing too much on the premise that in the Star Trek universe prejudice was a thing of the past.

I haven't seen the movie, so forgive me for injecting this viewpoint into the thread. But Stiles' motivation was a long family history, which is certainly as valid a motivation as any for characters in drama. As for the guy sitting next to wannabeKirk in the clip from Abrams, he strikes me as jingoisitic, making a comment in more of a 'I want RED DAWN to happen so I can realize my potential' kind of way, not as a serious valid character motivation.

Probably less motivated even than the assassins in TUC, who previously set the bar pretty low for the 'enlist in starfleet' / best o' the best tradition.

So? This Olsen-character is supposed to come across as an idiot.

 

[Noname Given]

The irony is that there were no Trek fans until TOS arrived in 1966. The show wasn't aimed at sci-fi geeks, but at viewers who happened to like some intelligence along with their SF space adventure. You know, the audience not being served by the Irwin Allen sci-fis.

No, the show was aimed at Sci-Fi geeks. My mother and father were actually in a pre-screen test audience for The Cage back in the day (and neither were Sci-Fi fans); and the TWO things that they remember most was:

1) The entire audience bursting out laughing when Mr. Spock first appeared on screen.

and

2) And my mother AGREED at the time (she always said, you have to remember, times were different) that having a female as the 'second in command' struck them both as ludicrous/ridiculous.

(And BTW we just talked about this yeasterday, when I called to wish her a happy Mother's Day; as she figured I already saw the new film; whickh I haven't, bit I'm going tonight, after work).

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

No, the show was aimed at Sci-Fi geeks. My mother and father were actually in a pre-screen test audience for The Cage back in the day (and neither were Sci-Fi fans); and the TWO things that they remember most was:

1) The entire audience bursting out laughing when Mr. Spock first appeared on screen.

and

2) And my mother AGREED at the time (she always said, you have to remember, times were different) that having a female as the 'second in command' struck them both as ludicrous/ridiculous.

That is interesting. Thanks.

 

[trevanian]

Stiles, "Balance of Terror" (TOS)

You are absolutely right. I had forgotten that. I think I was focusing too much on the premise that in the Star Trek universe prejudice was a thing of the past.

I haven't seen the movie, so forgive me for injecting this viewpoint into the thread. But Stiles' motivation was a long family history, which is certainly as valid a motivation as any for characters in drama. As for the guy sitting next to wannabeKirk in the clip from Abrams, he strikes me as jingoisitic, making a comment in more of a 'I want RED DAWN to happen so I can realize my potential' kind of way, not as a serious valid character motivation.

Probably less motivated even than the assassins in TUC, who previously set the bar pretty low for the 'enlist in starfleet' / best o' the best tradition.

So? This Olsen-character is supposed to come across as an idiot.

So in a sense, this incarnation of TREK is supposed to really echo back to even before the very earliest version of GR's Trek, (2 years before GL Coon), when in a CAGE outline, he has the Cap kicking somebody off his ship for shooting an alien out of general xenophobia, the idea being that folks like that shouldn't even be on starships in the first place, but this guy somehow got through the screening process. (while the guy in Abrams is just your typical 'enlist in SF' type, I guess, and it is like signing up for a tour in our middle east, no empathy or special 'qualify as human(e) skillsets required.)

A straw man to make the less-straw men look more substantial?

 

[trevanian]

The irony is that there were no Trek fans until TOS arrived in 1966. The show wasn't aimed at sci-fi geeks, but at viewers who happened to like some intelligence along with their SF space adventure. You know, the audience not being served by the Irwin Allen sci-fis.

No, the show was aimed at Sci-Fi geeks. My mother and father were actually in a pre-screen test audience for The Cage back in the day (and neither were Sci-Fi fans); .

You're not making a connection with this. Pre-screens would be testing GENERAL audiences, not genre-specific ones (unless studios did their testing at sf conventions, which I assume was not the case w/ your folks.)

I imagine part of the process of reviewing gen'l audience response would be if the viewers got past their initial laughter/disbelief and eventually 'went with' the show (which would be the IDEAL test, since they probably figured folks would sit down to watch it once or twice before giving up on it.)

When it went to series, it was drawing, what, 15-20 mil viewers a week to stay in the bottom third of ratings? That would, according to the 'pitched at SF geeks' tag put forth, suggest 10 percent of the country (more likely a a tenth of a percent of the population!) constituted these SF geeks at a time when SF was still tremendously ghettoized.

 

[trevanian]

Stiles, "Balance of Terror" (TOS)

You are absolutely right. I had forgotten that. I think I was focusing too much on the premise that in the Star Trek universe prejudice was a thing of the past.

I haven't seen the movie, so forgive me for injecting this viewpoint into the thread. But Stiles' motivation was a long family history, which is certainly as valid a motivation as any for characters in drama. As for the guy sitting next to wannabeKirk in the clip from Abrams, he strikes me as jingoisitic, making a comment in more of a 'I want RED DAWN to happen so I can realize my potential' kind of way, not as a serious valid character motivation.

Probably less motivated even than the assassins in TUC, who previously set the bar pretty low for the 'enlist in starfleet' / best o' the best tradition.

wannabeKirk

Chris Pine IS James T. Kirk.

Well, how can I argue with that? This POV of yours is put forth in EXACTLY the same fashion as movie posters from the 70s told us that 'Roger Moore IS James Bond' (and it was quite convincing to those audiences who loved Burt Reynolds car chase movies.)

Who could DARE argue with such an assessment?

 

[Warped9]

No, the show was aimed at Sci-Fi geeks. My mother and father were actually in a pre-screen test audience for The Cage back in the day (and neither were Sci-Fi fans); and the TWO things that they remember most was:

1) The entire audience bursting out laughing when Mr. Spock first appeared on screen.

and

2) And my mother AGREED at the time (she always said, you have to remember, times were different) that having a female as the 'second in command' struck them both as ludicrous/ridiculous.

That is interesting. Thanks.

Bullshit. If it was put across as credible then enough folks would have accepted it despite vocal detractors.

And the show was intended for a general audience and not specifically si-fi geeks. Go back and reread the archival materiel. At World Con audiences were stunned at how science fiction had been delivered in The Cage and WNMHGB when GR screened them. And they loved it. The network suits were quite impressed with The Cage as a pilot and considered it above the average sci-fi stuff. Their objection to Number One wasn't that she was female but that she played by GR's girlfriend and they weren't comfortable with that.

 

[Cakes488]

wannabeKirk

Chris Pine IS James T. Kirk. Every essence of the man Jim Kirk is in Chris Pine's pitch perfect portrayal.


The way he says Bones at the end and his swagger to the chair in the gold uniform and then sitting down cross-legged....it's Kirk. Not a new Kirk, or "wannabe" Kirk. But James T. Kirk.

Let's not get crazy here...I know you're all "aglow"...like you just had good sex or something...but this Pine fellow is neither a wannabe nor is he full fledged kirk....don't get me wrong he did a good job...but there is room for some improvement -- along with Scotty...he needs the most help because his character I definitely didn't recognize...I mean he asked for a sandwich instead of scotch??? WTF...I digress...

For you to say he captured "every essense" of Kirk...well I just have to say that you are wrong...he captured some...but not every essense.. ....and from what I've read and heard that JJ guy didn't want him to!

 

[Noname Given]

The irony is that there were no Trek fans until TOS arrived in 1966. The show wasn't aimed at sci-fi geeks, but at viewers who happened to like some intelligence along with their SF space adventure. You know, the audience not being served by the Irwin Allen sci-fis.

No, the show was aimed at Sci-Fi geeks. My mother and father were actually in a pre-screen test audience for The Cage back in the day (and neither were Sci-Fi fans); .

You're not making a connection with this. Pre-screens would be testing GENERAL audiences, not genre-specific ones (unless studios did their testing at sf conventions, which I assume was not the case w/ your folks.)

I imagine part of the process of reviewing gen'l audience response would be if the viewers got past their initial laughter/disbelief and eventually 'went with' the show (which would be the IDEAL test, since they probably figured folks would sit down to watch it once or twice before giving up on it.)

When it went to series, it was drawing, what, 15-20 mil viewers a week to stay in the bottom third of ratings? That would, according to the 'pitched at SF geeks' tag put forth, suggest 10 percent of the country (more likely a a tenth of a percent of the population!) constituted these SF geeks at a time when SF was still tremendously ghettoized.

Well, it was stated at the time thatr GR thought there was a sizeable (and untapped) audience out there that Westerns and Cop shows weren't catering to; and hell, one of the only reasons NBC greenlight the first pilot was becauise had CBS generated some buzz with Lost In Space earlier in the year (and for whatever reason it always had higher ratings then Star Trek - hell, the only reason it didn't get a 4th season - which CBS wanted - was because Guy Williams and June Lockhart were tired of playing second fiddle to a guys in a Robot suit, an old Shakesperian actor, and a 10 year old kid).

My point is - Star Trek was aimed by GR AT SCience Fiction fans; but he also hoped it would catch on with the general audience; which it honestly didn't in first run. I daresay, TOS owes a lot of its popularity in syndication to the Apollo 11 moon landing in 1969; as that pretty much kindled the imagination of the geneal populace; and got them more interested in space, and that's around the time TOS hit syndication.

 

[trevanian]

, one of the only reasons NBC greenlight the first pilot was becauise had CBS generated some buzz with Lost In Space earlier in the year
[snip]
I daresay, TOS owes a lot of its popularity in syndication to the Apollo 11 moon landing in 1969; as that pretty much kindled the imagination of the geneal populace; and got them more interested in space, and that's around the time TOS hit syndication.

Referring to your points above:

LIS went on the air in 65, a year AFTER when THE CAGE was shot.

Interest in the space program fell to near ZERO with the moon landing. Believe me, I was there (watching the landing that is, not on the moon), and I was practically the only one still caring for the followup missions, in spite of how boringly the program was presented (even Heinlein said he couldn't believe how NASA could take the most important event in history and put it across so badly.)

 

[Noname Given]

, one of the only reasons NBC greenlight the first pilot was becauise had CBS generated some buzz with Lost In Space earlier in the year
[snip]
I daresay, TOS owes a lot of its popularity in syndication to the Apollo 11 moon landing in 1969; as that pretty much kindled the imagination of the geneal populace; and got them more interested in space, and that's around the time TOS hit syndication.

Referring to your points above:

LIS went on the air in 65, a year AFTER when THE CAGE was shot.

Interest in the space program fell to near ZERO with the moon landing. Believe me, I was there (watching the landing that is, not on the moon), and I was practically the only one still caring for the followup missions, in spite of how boringly the program was presented (even Heinlein said he couldn't believe how NASA could take the most important event in history and put it across so badly.)

I was there too (I watched the moon landing live at bthe age of 6 - watched Star Trek season 3 too); and while I agree that (sans the whole Apollo 13 incident); interest in the moon missions dropped off, it did spark and interest in space travel as AFTER the moon shot, a lot of my friends that liked Bonanza and The Big Valley better, started watching Star Trek; an d hell, even my older sister became a fan.

 

[Dar70]

Just wait until I actually see this film and post my assessment. I'll need fireproof protective gear.

Hurry up and see it already man. I havent always agreed with you Warped but I have a feeling Im gonna agree at least 90% with you this time.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Just wait until I actually see this film and post my assessment. I'll need fireproof protective gear.

You ain't kidding, buddy. I've posted my favorable reaction to the movie many times and still I've been "skewered" by the (rubber) rapier wits of the cheerleaders.

 

[Cheebo]

I haven't seen the movie, so forgive me for injecting this viewpoint into the thread. But Stiles' motivation was a long family history, which is certainly as valid a motivation as any for characters in drama. As for the guy sitting next to wannabeKirk in the clip from Abrams, he strikes me as jingoisitic, making a comment in more of a 'I want RED DAWN to happen so I can realize my potential' kind of way, not as a serious valid character motivation.

Probably less motivated even than the assassins in TUC, who previously set the bar pretty low for the 'enlist in starfleet' / best o' the best tradition.

wannabeKirk

Chris Pine IS James T. Kirk.

Well, how can I argue with that? This POV of yours is put forth in EXACTLY the same fashion as movie posters from the 70s told us that 'Roger Moore IS James Bond' (and it was quite convincing to those audiences who loved Burt Reynolds car chase movies.)

Who could DARE argue with such an assessment?

And the posters were right. Even if you didn't like Roger Moore as Bond he WAS James Bond. Not a fake bond or wannabe Bond. Not liking something doesn't mean it isn't real or established.

You have yet to see the movie, so calling him a wannabe Kirk is absurd. And even if you end up not liking him after you see it it does not detract from him being 100% James T. Kirk.

He is Captain Kirk of the USS Enterprise purely because that is who he is playing, and based off the huge opening weekend Pine will be the real James T. Kirk for many movies for a long long time.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Just wait until I actually see this film and post my assessment. I'll need fireproof protective gear.

Well now, there's some self-dramatizing exaggeration...

 

[Cheebo]

Leonard Nimoy said best when he said any Trek fan who didn't like the movie was a "dickhead".

 

[trevanian]

And the posters were right. Even if you didn't like Roger Moore as Bond he WAS James Bond. Not a fake bond or wannabe Bond. Not liking something doesn't mean it isn't real or established.

The posters were promotion, the selling of a notion. That's fine for courting hiveminds exhibiting lemming-like behavior, but I can make my own choices about drama (and toothpaste and all sorts of other things) without being told who is (or SHOULD BE) what, ACCORDING TO THE PEOPLE SELLING THE PRODUCT.