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What's keeping me out of the theatre....

As opposed to the eight-year-old boy crowd, like pretty much all Trek that came before it?

And once again, another 'defense' of the movie that requires that you aboslutely hate all things Trek not the movie.. or something. I really like the half-hearted "but seriously, I love Trek" after that.. that's how you get your bona-fides, by shitting all over the bathroom then promising to let the house-owner to borrow a mop.
 
And once again, another 'defense' of the movie that requires that you aboslutely hate all things Trek not the movie.. or something. I really like the half-hearted "but seriously, I love Trek" after that.. that's how you get your bona-fides, by shitting all over the bathroom then promising to let the house-owner to borrow a mop.

Who said anything about hating "all" things Trek? Or even "half" or "significant percentage"? Honestly, anybody here who didn't give up on Star Trek with Voyager, or TNG for that matter, will end up enjoying this movie. Go see it. Or don't. I don't actually care. But why all the contempt for those who go see it and enjoy themselves?
 
Who said anything about hating "all" things Trek? Or even "half" or "significant percentage"? Honestly, anybody here who didn't give up on Star Trek with Voyager, or TNG for that matter, will end up enjoying this movie. Go see it. Or don't. I don't actually care. But why all the contempt for those who go see it and enjoy themselves?

I don't have contempt for those who enjoy themselves. I have contempt and disdain for those people who feel the need to prove how 'cool' they are by dumping on anything NOT this movie, and any fans not 100 percent drinking the kool-aid for it. Hell, how many posts, yours included, had to throw that extra dagger in the back "This movie was great, unlike that sucky TOS stuff that sucks the sucking sucker suck!"
 
Now, now. Dennis would treat you like shit even if there wasn't a new Trek movie out. :)

True enough, I suppose.

But it makes me wonder why people invest their egos into something they had no part in making, creating, writing, acting, etc... to the point that they're willing to behave in the way they do to 'defend' it...

Two things:

1) You're kinda doing that, too.

2) Always consider the source.

I think it's time to move on.
 
Having seen the movie, I think what bothered me was the focus on marketing a valuable commodity to a new generation. Damn the original fans. I'm not a Star Wars fan at all but in the last movie watching the Darth Vader mask go on for the first time while sitting in the theatre as a middle aged man 30 years after seeing the original movie; provoked an emotional response. There was NONE of that in this movie. A lot of the questions I wondered about growing up were addressed but in a dumbed down unsatisfying way. I ended up feeling essentially the same as I did when Captain Kirks last words were revealed to be "oh my" Disappointed, sad and ticked off.
 
Last week on Wednesday I was off work because I had to work Saturday over the Easter weekend. On that day around 2pm I opted to chill for a bit and turned on the TV. It just so happened that I channel surfed past SPACE and "Courtmartial" was just starting.

Now I've seen this episode countless times. And while I enjoy watching things unfold even though I know it inside and out and backwards, beyond that I find myself watching the mechanics of how these things are put together.

It was the proverbial nail in the coffin for me.

For the last couple of years I've been reading and hearing about the next film. I'm as familiar as anyone with what we may expect. I've seen all the trailers and (having no intention to pay to see it) I had no problem reading the reviews and spoilers after the film's screening in Australia. On that point this film held few surprises and it's appears to be pretty much what I thought it would be.

And that's why "Courtmartial" nailed the lid shut.

"Courtmartial" is one of the best episodes of TOS. It ably delivers the kind of drama that TOS could be really good at. Every aspect of storytelling is well delivered (even knowing what we know about computer programming today). This was good science fiction. The writing is good, the acting is good and the story is good.

Star Trek had action and space battles and run-and-jump and adventure. But they were grounded in good story. Sure the production and f/x would have been more elaborate with more time and money, but the production standard rarely if ever detracted from what was unfolding in regards to story.

But for me one of the essential key elements of Star Trek at most times, and particularly at its best, was that it was smart. The show sometimes faltered but generally when I think of Star Trek I think of a wonderful balance of enthusiasm and intelligence in its storytelling.

When I look at the trailers for the forthcoming film in addition to what I know about it I see lots of energy and hyper polished f/x. But I see next to zero intelligence. Granted it's a reboot, and that's fair enough, but what I see are essentially poor story ideas lifted from previous films and rehashed together yet one more time.

And all that following other Trek films (and series) that have disappointed me brings me to appreciate TOS all the more.

Yes, I can see where things could have been done a bit differently in individual episodes. But overall Star Trek hit the target they were aiming for, even with the occasional missteps.

It wasn't just fun because of all the cool stuff we like to see in good SF. It was fun because even more so they generally took a smart approach to all the cool stuff.

It's that wonderful balance of enthusiasm and intelligence that keeps bringing me back. And that essential element that will keep me out of the theatre.

Wish I had your forsight.
 
No, you're right, mass appeal doesn't automatically mean that a movie is good. That being said, disagreeing with lots and lots of people doesn't make one any more perceptive or discerning.

True. You know, though, what appealing to "non-fans" requires, most basically?

It requires that the movie offer them something that they can assess for themselves to be valuable - in this case, having entertainment value - because of what it actually is and actually contains, rather than being able to manipulate them or rely upon their sentimental attachment or their willingness to accept nonsense as read because it's familiar.
 
Having seen the movie, I think what bothered me was the focus on marketing a valuable commodity to a new generation. Damn the original fans.

There was nothing about this movie that could even remotely be considered as 'Damn the original fans'.

BTW: 'Original fans'? You mean those people around 50?
Mr. Bailey, what was your impression of Star Trek again?
 
I don't have contempt for those who enjoy themselves. I have contempt and disdain for those people who feel the need to prove how 'cool' they are by dumping on anything NOT this movie, and any fans not 100 percent drinking the kool-aid for it. Hell, how many posts, yours included, had to throw that extra dagger in the back "This movie was great, unlike that sucky TOS stuff that sucks the sucking sucker suck!"

Okay, so I'm drinking the Kool-Aid by liking the movie in spite of years of following Trek, but you're not drinking the Kool-Aid by lashing out at me for not unconditionally loving all aspects of all things Star Trek? Either you're not reading me or I'm not reading you...
My original point was that as someone who has loved Star Trek for years (though apparently you doubt this), and all of its spinoffs but one (I'll not say which, since pointing out flaws makes me less of a fan), I enjoyed this movie. Some people reading this thread may be on the fence on whether they'll see it or not, and might want to know that someone who shares their concerns about it actually enjoyed himself.
 
But really, I guess I don't really care either way, because in the end it was a very entertaining movie. And entertainment is what this is all about, isn't it?

That's how I feel. As long as it is entertaining, I don't care about the "canon issues" and crap. I didn't like Enterprise, but not because of continuity/canon issues. I didn't like it because it didn't entertain me for the most part.
 
Having seen the movie, I think what bothered me was the focus on marketing a valuable commodity to a new generation. Damn the original fans.

There was nothing about this movie that could even remotely be considered as 'Damn the original fans'.

Well how about Spock freaking out and striking a fellow Starfleet officer without repercussions. How about Vulcan youths engaging in hazing. A bigoted crew member wanting Romulan ass? A Vulcan engaging in intimate acts outside of Pon-farr. A highly trained Starfleet officer forgetting to disengage a mooring connection. A starship one or two classes below a heavy cruiser having over twenty shuttlecrafts. Just for starters
 
There was nothing about this movie that could even remotely be considered as 'Damn the original fans'.

BTW: 'Original fans'? You mean those people around 50?
Mr. Bailey, what was your impression of Star Trek again?

This "original fan" said "damn!" a lot while watching it. In a good way. :lol:
 
Well how about Spock freaking out and striking a fellow Starfleet officer without repercussions. How about Vulcan youths engaging in hazing. A bigoted crew member wanting Romulan ass? A Vulcan engaging in intimate acts outside of Pon-farr. A highly trained Starfleet officer forgetting to disengage a mooring connection. A starship one or two classes below a heavy cruiser having over twenty shuttlecrafts. Just for starters

The romance sub-plot bugged me too. Not for the "outside of Pon-Farr" reason, but because high-ranked officers shouldn't kiss a subordinate in front of the crew, and Spock certainly never would break that protocol. I thought Spock's childhood flashback scene was a nice updating on a similar scene from "Yesteryear", though, and I couldn't help but wonder if there were shades of "The Naked Time" and "This Side Of Paradise" in the beatdown scene...
 
This "original fan" said "damn!" a lot while watching it. In a good way. :lol:[/QUOTE]

What was the high point of the movie for you?
 
I have no clue what you want from me. :confused:

Why am I where? On the Trek BBS? In this thread?

In this thread. As in 'check the title.'

Some of the folks here wouldn't have gone w/o a free pass, so they had comments in that context.

I don't see anything from you about what was going to be keeping you out of the theater (because nothing would apparently), and of course your presence also makes Bailey keep climbing the fence and (mis)speaking for others and playing in fields where the mod isn't in his pocket (one hopes anyway.)
Wow, I must have totally missed the rule stating that I'm only allowed to post in threads where I agree with the idea expressed in the thread title/original post. :wtf:

And yet that is precisely the dominant attitude over in the Trek XI forum, where "naysayers" were surrounded and torn apart like a caterpillar surrounded by army ants.
 
This "original fan" said "damn!" a lot while watching it. In a good way. :lol:

What was the high point of the movie for you?[/QUOTE]

There were too many moments I enjoyed to have a favorite quite yet, but perhaps unlike a lot of the reviewers I've read I enjoyed most of the Academy section of the film a lot. Kirk in the "Kobyashi Maru" test - munching away on an apple as he would be many years later while discussing the test with Kirstie Saavik ("I don't like to lose") - but mostly (because I am a sentimental, pre-sold Trek fan) the moment when McCoy and Kirk first glimpse the Enterprise from within their shuttle and we get the whole panorama of the space dock and then the Enterprise herself.

I found it gorgeous and very emotional. And yeah, I thought it compared favorably to the sequence in ST:TMP that inspired it.

I thought the opening sequence with the Kelvin's destruction and Kirk's birth was damned near perfect.
 
They could've just had Nimoy as the older Spock recounting this first adventure as a nod to the old show.

And Nimoy would have refused to participate. As with "Phase II"/"TMP", "Unification" and "Generations", Nimoy will only reprise Spock when he sees that his character is a crucial element in the profession of the plot.
 
Wow, I must have totally missed the rule stating that I'm only allowed to post in threads where I agree with the idea expressed in the thread title/original post. :wtf:
And yet that is precisely the dominant attitude over in the Trek XI forum, where "naysayers" were surrounded and torn apart like a caterpillar surrounded by army ants.
I read this a lot, but I actually never experienced that. I spend a lot of time in the Trek XI forum and believe me, in the past I have often voiced concerns about this new movie myself (hell, even now, after having actually seen it, I have many problems with it; and I won't shy away from posting about them). But there wasn't one single time where I was surrounded and torn apart. So, I don't think it has anything to do with having another opinion. I'm thinking it has something to do with the attitude in which one voices this opinion.
 
At the end of the day, you are why I don't want to see this movie. You and guys like you who are so emotionally invested in a piece a fiction that they feel free to treat real people like utter shit over it.

I'm a Star Trek fan and I'd never let strangers - nor even friends - talk me out of seeing a new Star Trek movie. Even weak ST movies, such as ST V and NEM.

Even the very worst ST movies are enjoyable, even if only to poke fun at. Hence "Galaxy Quest".
 
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