What's keeping me out of the theatre....

[Admiral Buzzkill]

"The Enemy Below" is a great movie, and does contain about everything that's in "Balance Of Terror" except for the suspicion-of-Spock subplot. I guess Orci and Kurtzman must have studied BoT reasonably closely to have figured that slapping a Roman name on the Romulan baddie was a good idea. Little bit of cheese, there.

 

[Warped9]

^^ No, BoT wasn't original in itself, but there's nothing new in that in entertainment. But it was damned good science fiction retelling of The Enemy Below. And there's nothing wrong with that either.

From that perspective Trek XI was a rehash of mixed plot elements from TNG films. The distinction is that Abrams' was poorly executed.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The distinction is that Abrams' was poorly executed.

You're entirely mistaken.

 

[Middle Earther]

I really appreciated Warped9's insights! Thank you! However, as one who did not really like the movie - I would say see it at least one time on the big screen. I really enjoyed the special effects, eye candy parts, etc. There were moments when TOS is struggling to come out, despite Abrams efforts. There is also potential for good, ST storytelling planted in the sequel.

 

[BillJ]

Yesterday morning after thinking about many other things as well as reflecting on what I've been reading pro and con about this film I popped in a disc from my 1st season TOS set and watched "Balance Of Terror."

Yes, I could see many of the sins that digitally remastered transfers make apparent. And, yes, I could see things that would have to be done differently today.

But in terms of acting and writing there's nothing that BoT has to apologize for. You could pretty much lift that script whole and use it again today, assuming you also had first-rate acting and deft f/x to support it and it would kick ass.

Shatner, Nimoy, Kelley, Doohan, Takei, Nichols and Mark Lenard are all on the top of their game here with excellent nuanced performances that make the new incarnations look like a pack of amateurs.

This is what good Star Trek is for me. And it underlines pretty much everything I dislike about Trek XI.

I agree with some others who've stated that they think a large part of this film's appeal is the simple fact that we're revisting familiar characters and getting back to the era that hooked so many people. This film underlines the broadly caricatured idea of what many people think Star Trek is. And it has undeniable energy and exurburance.

But that just isn't nearly enough to hold me.

So you've picked what many consider the best-of-the-best of Trek?

Now come back after you've watched:

The Alternative Factor
Catspaw
Spock's Brain
And the Children Shall Lead

I love the original Star Trek as much as anybody on this board. But at least be fair about it. I can't imagine any group getting together (writer, director and actors) and producing something better than Trek's best episodes. It's not even fair to hold them to that standard. The original definitely 'caught lightening in a bottle'

 

[Warped9]

^^ I never said TOS was perfect, but it got far more right than it got wrong. And I while I can acknowledge its mistakes I lean to seeing TOS generally in its better terms than where it stumbled. But you actually prove my point. Instead of Trek XI aiming to be more like BoT it emulated the likes of ATCSL.

The distinction is that Abrams' was poorly executed.

You're entirely mistaken.

Not from where I'm standing.

 

[JTK2099]

Why does someone who posts a rational, thought-out explanation of why they don't like the new film get accused of being a troll? The board will accept any form of gushing praise but no criticism is tolerated?

 

[Warped9]

Why does someone who posts a rational, thought-out explanation of why they don't like the new film get accused of being a troll? The board will accept any form of gushing praise but no criticism is tolerated?

Well, if they can't offer a rational and articulate rebuttal they can only resort to name calling.

 

[BillJ]

Why does someone who posts a rational, thought-out explanation of why they don't like the new film get accused of being a troll? The board will accept any form of gushing praise but no criticism is tolerated?

I don't see any name-calling. I see people here discussing pros and cons of the new film. IDIC and all that stuff.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

My brother is deliberately watching all of Trek's worst episodes as a way to needle me for my criticisms of the movie. Dass cool, I told him, and even suggested a few lame eps he'd forgotten. If you're gonna judge Trek by its absolute worst and absolute campiest outings, then this movie is a fine continuation. it's alos a fine continuation if Star Trek is the "inaccurate" toys and comics from the 1970s--in a very real sense, it is. But to denigrate those 25-30 episodes that(to my mind) justify being is just being disingenuous. To what end, I do not know.

For the record, I rank this new movie third or fourth, depending on how generous I'm feeling toward First Contact at the given moment. As far as I'm concerned, TMP ad TWoK remain the only Trek movies that have a claim at truly being "good."

 

[BillJ]

My brother is deliberately watching all of Trek's worst episodes as a way to needle me for my criticisms of the movie. Dass cool, I told him, and even suggested a few lame eps he'd forgotten. If you're gonna judge Trek by its absolute worst and absolute campiest outings, then this movie is a fine continuation. it's alos a fine continuation if Star Trek is the "inaccurate" toys and comics from the 1970s--in a very real sense, it is. But to denigrate those 25-30 episodes that(to my mind) justify being is just being disingenuous. To what end, I do not know.

For the record, I rank this new movie third or fourth, depending on how generous I'm feeling toward First Contact at the given moment. As far as I'm concerned, TMP ad TWoK remain the only Trek movies that have a claim at truly being "good."

I think if one is going to judge the film against the Original Series, then they should judge it against the totality of it. Not just pick and chose samples that prove their point.

Star Trek 09 pretty much plops itself right in the middle (for me). I've seen plenty of Trek that was better and plenty that was worse.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Hell, I put it it the top third of the movies but then, most of the movies blow. Not that I felt that way at the time--of the films, only TVH, TFF and the last two TNG films seemed lke crap at the time I saw them. I know it's only a mattter of time before my "heart" catches up with "head" on this one, as well. EDIT: Now that I think about, I wasn't too fond of GEN first time I saw it, either.

As far as the series is concerned: that show put out close to thirty episodes a season. And while it had a big budget for the time, even adjusted for inflation it was nothing compared to the money lavished on this movie. Plus, all the movies had the best episodes to learn from. I think it's more than fair to say to say that this movie--all the movies--should be judged againts the best of TOS rather than the best, the worst and the in-betweens.

 

[Joker]

^^ I never said TOS was perfect, but it got far more right than it got wrong. And I while I can acknowledge its mistakes I lean to seeing TOS generally in its better terms than where it stumbled. But you actually prove my point. Instead of Trek XI aiming to be more like BoT it emulated the likes of ATCSL.

The distinction is that Abrams' was poorly executed.

You're entirely mistaken.

Not from where I'm standing.

Have you seen it?

 

[Vance]

Tell you what, Elton...

If, in 40 years time, people think "James T Kirk" and the image of Chris Pine comes to mind, then I'll give it to anyone that this movie really was better than TOS.

Until then, please simply accept that I don't repsect a single person who comes here to rub shit into people's faces that this movie is almost a commercial 'break-even' out of spite.

You see, unlike many people, I don't need to have my opinions either dictated by or placated to the 'masses' to reaffirm myself.

 

[BillJ]

Tell you what, Elton...

If, in 40 years time, people think "James T Kirk" and the image of Chris Pine comes to mind, then I'll give it to anyone that this movie really was better than TOS.

Until then, please simply accept that I don't repsect a single person who comes here to rub shit into people's faces that this movie is almost a commercial 'break-even' out of spite.

You see, unlike many people, I don't need to have my opinions either dictated by or placated to the 'masses' to reaffirm myself.

I don't think anyone has said it's better than TOS. What I've maintained all along is that I like this film, makes me feel like a kid again.

Can't wait for the Blu-Ray.

 

[Vance]

I don't think anyone has said it's better than TOS.

There are thousands of such posts on the Trek XI forum, and quite a few that weazel their way into here. There's also an endless number of "Sure X in the movie was stupid, but look at how awful Y in TOS was!" style posts, to say nothing of the "If you liked anything before this movie in Trek, you suck and should die" sorts of posts that are all the rage now.

To say nothing of the people who feel compelled to personally attack and harass people who so much as voice a minor critique of the movie.

What I've maintained all along is that I like this film, makes me feel like a kid again.

And I'm glad you enjoy it. Just please repsect the people who have a different opinion. That's all I'm personally asking.

Can't wait for the Blu-Ray.

Won't be long of a wait, apparently...

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

The distinction is that Abrams' was poorly executed.

You're entirely mistaken.

How exactly can his opinion be mistaken?

 

[SalvorHardin]

I don't know how anyone can even start comparing TOS with the new movie...

On the one hand we have a tv show with dozens of hours to develop its world, its characters and plots. It had the luxury to produce great, good, average and bad episodes over a course of years.
It was given movies and books.

And on the other hand we have merely 2 hours and a few minutes of material, coming after various Trek failures, burdened with resurrecting a franchise, reintroducing old and loved characters etc etc
In just 2 hours.

Anyway,if someone doesn't want to see the movie or doesn't like it...well don't see it. Not my problem.

I enjoy watching my TOS dvd's, I enjoyed the new movie despite it's flaws (nothing is ever perfect after all) and that's about it.

At the end of the day, it's just Star Trek. Something to make you think, laugh, enjoy yourself, escape. Some times it does all that at once, some times it does just a few of those things. Sometimes none.

It's hardly the most important thing in life even though we spend hours talking about it online.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The distinction is that Abrams' was poorly executed.

You're entirely mistaken.

How exactly can his opinion be mistaken?

Oh, was that an opinion? It looks exactly like a broad, declarative statement - sort of like, you know, "you're entirely mistaken."

 

[Joker]

Tell you what, Elton...

If, in 40 years time, people think "James T Kirk" and the image of Chris Pine comes to mind, then I'll give it to anyone that this movie really was better than TOS.

Until then, please simply accept that I don't repsect a single person who comes here to rub shit into people's faces that this movie is almost a commercial 'break-even' out of spite.

You see, unlike many people, I don't need to have my opinions either dictated by or placated to the 'masses' to reaffirm myself.

What the fuck are you drooling on about?

My question was to Warped9: Has he seen the film?