What's it like to flop?

[TremblingBluStar]

^^ Conan wasn't properly advertised and even if it was, there were no 'star draws' to it. We may know Momoa from SG:A, but the average movie viewer has no clue who is this skinny guy and why is he playing Conan. Public perception is that Arnold is still Conan even people who never watched that movie! So there.

I wish I was as skinny as Momoa!

But I do agree to a certain extent. However, if you look at another recent fantasy remake, the 2010 Clash of the Titans, there wasn't much for star power in that film either. Sam Worthington was in Avatar, but I doubt most people remember he was. Liam Neeson was the film's only major star, and he had what was essentially a supporting role.

 

[Gaith]

However, if you look at another recent fantasy remake, the 2010 Clash of the Titans, there wasn't much for star power in that film either. Sam Worthington was in Avatar, but I doubt most people remember he was.

Sure they did. And T4, too. Anyway, it's a question of tone, I think. CotT was about heroics. Conan was about a barbarian, and don't we have enough of those in today's Republican Party without paying to see others in bad movies?

 

[Captain Craig]

However, if you look at another recent fantasy remake, the 2010 Clash of the Titans, there wasn't much for star power in that film either. Sam Worthington was in Avatar, but I doubt most people remember he was.

Sure they did. And T4, too. Anyway, it's a question of tone, I think. CotT was about heroics. Conan was about a barbarian, and don't we have enough of those in today's Republican Party without paying to see others in bad movies?

Liberals and hyperbole. How's that hope & change working again?

 

[TremblingBluStar]

Sure they did. And T4, too. Anyway, it's a question of tone, I think. CotT was about heroics. Conan was about a barbarian, and don't we have enough of those in today's Republican Party without paying to see others in bad movies?

So he was in another film (Terminator) that very few people saw. He's still not a star, and isn't headlining movies banking on his power to draw in audiences. Hell, Justin Timberlake has more star power!

I don't think today's audience knows enough about Conan or Titans to say what they are about. They see the posters and think "wow! Fantasy film with lots of pretty special effects", then decide from there whether to go or not.

I guess my point is Conan could have been a huge hit without star power if it hadn't failed to connect with audiences through it's initial marketing.

 

[Gaith]

Liberals and hyperbole. How's that hope & change working again?

Hyperbole? About a party that cheers the death of a hypothetical young citizen with a grave medical condition, not to mention executions, and boos a gay soldier? Sounds barbaric to me. And I'll tell you how the hope and change works out when we get an authentically progressive president, and a Senate system that doesn't allow its less-evolved minority to kill all sorts of legislation with even the thread of a filibuster.

I guess my point is Conan could have been a huge hit without star power if it hadn't failed to connect with audiences through it's initial marketing.

Okay, but why? Why should audiences care about a hulking brute whose entire purpose in life is to avenge a wrong he can't even recall? How is that in any way original or interesting? Why should the under-25 audience, pretty much none of whom has seen the Arnold version, care? Because Pathfinder, from the same director, was such a big hit? Or Valhalla Rising? Or Outlander? Or maybe Prince of Persia, King Arthur, or, going back a bit father, The 13th Warrior?

Period sword, blood and guts movies have been a tough sell for ages. Why should this piece of crap (according to the reviews) have been any different?

 

[Captain Craig]

Liberals and hyperbole. How's that hope & change working again?

Hyperbole? About a party that cheers the death of a hypothetical young citizen with a grave medical condition, not to mention executions, and boos a gay soldier? Sounds barbaric to me. And I'll tell you how the hope and change works out when we get an authentically progressive president, and a Senate system that doesn't allow its less-evolved minority to kill all sorts of legislation with even the thread of a filibuster.

Really? So some people that would vote R and are can't be proven to represent the ENTIRE GOP block cheer a statement and to you it's the whole party.
I mean shit they were Ron Paul supporters, his supporters cheer every time he passes gas. I would argue you could make the case they are fringe within the fringe (assuming the media who mocked the Tea Party 2years ago thinks they are nothing to be concerned about). Hell, Paul supporters probably don't even consider themselves Tea Party, not Libertarian enough they likely elbowed their way into the proceedings.

That'd be like if I assumed the nutjobs in Code Pink were fully representative of all Democrats. Since I personally know and work with quite a few that would be grossly unfair. But hey live with your hatred blinders on by all means.

Democrats got their Progressive/Liberal/Socialist agenda in full gear for 2 full years and had the purse strings since '06. Been more than enough chance to prove your way is a better way. May work in small countries but 300 million plus is another ball game. Hope and Change fully fits into this thread of FLOP and we as a country are experiencing it head on.


As for Conan or Cowboys and Aliens neither get to be the cinematic disasters of '11 that crown goes to Mars Needs Moms hands down.

 

[Gaith]

Democrats got their Progressive/Liberal/Socialist agenda in full gear for 2 full years and had the purse strings since '06.

Oho? So where's our public option, supported by 75% of the American people?

Maybe if the public option had been passed, people would have felt better about the economy, and thus more inclined to spend their bucks on crap like this Conan disaster.

(And yes, the above was a joke. )

 

[TremblingBluStar]

Democrats got their Progressive/Liberal/Socialist agenda in full gear for 2 full years and had the purse strings since '06. Been more than enough chance to prove your way is a better way. May work in small countries but 300 million plus is another ball game. Hope and Change fully fits into this thread of FLOP and we as a country are experiencing it head on.

To be fair, the Democrats haven't been able to push any agenda that in any measurable way led the country back to how things were in the "good old days" when unions were strong, taxes were high enough to pay for what we need, regulations actually prevented economic disaster and corruption, and we had a strong middle class and low unemployment.

Right now, the country is far far more conservative and on the economic right than we have been since the 1890's. To say that our current economy is due to liberal policies is frankly baffling.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

Okay, but why? Why should audiences care about a hulking brute whose entire purpose in life is to avenge a wrong he can't even recall?

I don't know. Why did they care in 1982? Remember, this was a few years before Arnold had any star power to speak of.

Why would audiences care about CGI Ferngully with blue cat-people?

I don't think Conan's failure is in any way a testament of bad writing or story telling. Not because the film isn't bad, but because I don't think the average moviegoing audience cares how well written a film is so long as there is enough crap going on to keep them entertained.

 

[23skidoo]

This thread needs to me moved to TNZ. It's gone from discussing the impact a flop movie has on the many people involved in its making to a liberal vs. conservative political debate. I came in here planning to discuss my views on the OP's point, but the discussion has been derailed.

Only 10 people on the planet care about the politics of Conan the Barbarian. And none of them by all accounts bothered to see the movie.

Alex

 

[Gaith]

Okay, but why? Why should audiences care about a hulking brute whose entire purpose in life is to avenge a wrong he can't even recall?

I don't know. Why did they care in 1982?

I don't really know, but they were probably drawn to the actors, and the fantasy setting, which was a lot more out there in their pre-LotR age. They also remembered Conan comics and stories from their childhoods, which this past generation or two doesn't. America was also much more of a hulking superpower then; I could thus easily see the audience relating to Conan in the way we post-Cold War, post-9/11 Americans relate to Jason Bourne now.

Why would audiences care about CGI Ferngully with blue cat-people?

Well, for one, it's a love story, so it gets lots of eyeballs right there. For another, I think lots of people are worried about the environment but feel helpless to do anything about it, so it's a perfect time for a story about someone defending a rainforest paradise. Third, it's an anti-corporate, anti-mercenary story, two very large boogeymen for a whole lot of people these days.


So, I ask again: why should general audiences give a hoot about Conan in 2011?

 

[RoJoHen]

General audiences didn't care about Avatar. They went and saw it because it was this big, awesome spectacle that was unprecedented in theaters. It was popular for the same reason The Matrix was popular. OMG look what we can do with CGI!

Conan, even though it looked like it had pretty good production values, didn't have a hook. All of those warrior-type movies look exactly the same. There was nothing about previews for Conan that really stood out as a must see. I bet it gets a lot of views on Netflix, and I bet it does all right for rentals, but it just didn't look like anything special.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

So, I ask again: why should general audiences give a hoot about Conan in 2011?

See this reply

General audiences didn't care about Avatar. They went and saw it because it was this big, awesome spectacle that was unprecedented in theaters. It was popular for the same reason The Matrix was popular. OMG look what we can do with CGI!

Conan, even though it looked like it had pretty good production values, didn't have a hook.

Since RoJoHen gave the exact same answer I would have.

I don't think the current social or economic standing of the US has a thing to do with why Conan flopped. Like was said above, it didn't have a hook that could draw people in. These days, action adventure movies seem to need either a leap in special effects or the promise of tons of action. That is where Conan failed to market itself properly. The trailers and commercials made it look boring, in my opinion.

Further, if the first film rode on the nostalgia of adults who grew up on the comics, why couldn't the new one appeal to adults who saw the Arnold film as a kid?

 

[Gaith]

Well, then, we'll have to agree to disagree on that point; I think general audiences cared tons about Avatar and The Matrix.

I do agree that the new Conan movie looked terrible, though I don't see how a better ad campaign could have helped. Sometimes soulless crap simply dies soulless crap's deserved fate.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

Well, then, we'll have to agree to disagree on that point; I think general audiences cared tons about Avatar and The Matrix.

Maybe the audience members you have been exposed to care about the content of these movies, but I don't believe the general audience member got anything out of Avatar other than pretty visuals.

The people I talked to about the movie in real life didn't seem to know what the movie was about at all.

 

[Lindley]

Ah.

Never met anybody who watches that.

Some guys in my Windows 7 class talk about it during break. I also heard two 50 year old men arguing about it.

It's one of the more faithful book-to-TV adaptations that I've ever seen. Comparable in faithfulness to the Scifi Dune mini, but with a much bigger budget. Plus it's a pretty good story to begin with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN8PKcNGcuI

 

[Sindatur]

We have two parties in this Country. The Stupid Party and the Evil Party. Every once in awhile, they get together and do something stupid and evil, and we call that Bi-Partisanship I can't believe there are still people who blindly support one party or the other, and blindly demonize the other. They are two peas in a pod, interested in only obtaining, retaining, and expanding their power (And repaying the Contributors who helped them into office). neitehr aprty is interested in helping the Public or the Country as a whole.

I didn't see Conan, but, I don't understand why everyone caps on Mamoa being too skinny. He's a pretty big guy, and I'll bet real men from Conan's actual time period were nowhere near as big as Arnold. But, yea, the advertising, just didn't sell the movie. Cowboys and Aliens, I did see, and didn't think much of it, I think it's drawback was the mixing of Western and SciFi, which has never produced a success (Yes, the folks who love the mixing, absolutely love it, but, it doesn't hold mass aduience appeal)

 

[TremblingBluStar]

I didn't see Conan, but, I don't understand why everyone caps on Mamoa being too skinny. He's a pretty big guy, and I'll bet real men from Conan's actual time period were nowhere near as big as Arnold.

Size isn't everything. I heard that he was pretty good in the role, and moved like someone who really knows how to use a sword.

Spoony from The Spoony Experiment had a great discussion comparing the old film and the remake here.

 

[RJDiogenes]

We have two parties in this Country. The Stupid Party and the Evil Party. Every once in awhile, they get together and do something stupid and evil, and we call that Bi-Partisanship I can't believe there are still people who blindly support one party or the other, and blindly demonize the other. They are two peas in a pod, interested in only obtaining, retaining, and expanding their power (And repaying the Contributors who helped them into office). neitehr aprty is interested in helping the Public or the Country as a whole.

This is why we need election reform, to break the back of the two-party system.

 

[Anwar]

Momoa wasn't the problem, the problem was the director who has nothing to his name but blood-spurting slash films.