What's Going On With Robert Beltran?

[CorporalCaptain]

Here's the thing: Chakotay should have been the most interesting and important character on that show. His spirituality and vision quests alone made VOY stand out above the rest of the Trek series as something truly different from the formula. He would have been the rock that kept all the other crew members sane in an extraordinary situation. But then he quickly became overshadowed by Janeway, the Doctor, and 7 of 9, and the changed premise that being stuck in the Delta Quadrant was just fine and dandy and that there would be no real conflict with the crew or worry about dwindling supplies etc. to the point that his character became essentially meaningless. He was relegated to just being a cardboard commander with no real personality to speak of and no attributes for any kind of good stories past the first season. Yeah, if I were Beltran, I'd be unhappy too.

Given that spirituality and the role of Sisko as the Emissary of the Prophets was something that DS9 led with, I don't see how VOY could have really "stood out" apart from all other Star Trek series by placing greater emphasis on Chakotay's spirituality. Not that a more prominent and better conceived spiritual role for Chakotay would have been a bad thing; that could have been great. It's just that DS9 already had spirituality as an essential component before VOY even aired.

 

[Court_Vince]

There was a small argument that has been long settled since. He was provoked and said some things he shouldn't have. As it was said above, we are all human. Then sadly others who originally were not involved jumped in, retweeted and commented on his replies, and it ugly snowballed from there. Last I saw that someone dug out old tweets he made in March and if you didn't look closely you'd think they were recent. That is simply not fair.

Do you mean this tweet? https://twitter.com/robertbeltran74/status/1234567294438690816 if so I don't see how it connects to exchange earlier, but some of the tweets were deleted so we might not be getting the full story.

Here's the thing: Chakotay should have been the most interesting and important character on that show. His spirituality and vision quests alone made VOY stand out above the rest of the Trek series as something truly different from the formula. He would have been the rock that kept all the other crew members sane in an extraordinary situation. But then he quickly became overshadowed by Janeway, the Doctor, and 7 of 9, and the changed premise that being stuck in the Delta Quadrant was just fine and dandy and that there would be no real conflict with the crew or worry about dwindling supplies etc. to the point that his character became essentially meaningless. He was relegated to just being a cardboard commander with no real personality to speak of and no attributes for any kind of good stories past the first season. Yeah, if I were Beltran, I'd be unhappy too.

Agreed, it mainly bad writing and the fact the Native American "expert" they hired turned out to be fraud is what failed Chakotay & Beltran, its not that his anger isn't justified or understandable but taking that out on fans is what crosses the line for me.

 

[Dukhat]

Given that spirituality and the role of Sisko as the Emissary of the Prophets was something that DS9 led with, I don't see how VOY could have really "stood out" apart from all other Star Trek series by placing greater emphasis on Chakotay's spirituality. Not that a more prominent and better conceived spiritual role for Chakotay would have been a bad thing; that could have been great. It's just that DS9 already had spirituality as an essential component before VOY even aired.

But most of the time Sisko did not embrace his role as Emissary of the Prophets. He knew that while the Bajorans worshipped them as gods, he understood that they were just aliens. So he wasn’t a very ‘spiritual’ person in that regard.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

But most of the time Sisko did not embrace his role as Emissary of the Prophets. He knew that while the Bajorans worshipped them as gods, he understood that they were just aliens. So he wasn’t a very ‘spiritual’ person in that regard.

I think that's fairly accurate, at least in terms of how the character behaved, backstory and nominal attributes of the character (revealed later) notwithstanding. When it came to who in the main cast was most spiritual, most religious it was actually Kira.

My main point was that DS9 went whole hog on the spirituality, even in its first season. While Sisko may have thought of the Prophets as wormhole aliens, at least up front, the show itself remained neutral, presenting the Federation/secular view of the Prophets and the Bajoran/religious view of the them as two contrasting viewpoints.

One of my favorite episodes of VOY is "Sacred Ground." Between Janeway and Chakotay, it's Janeway who comes out in the end more as one seriously entertaining the idea that something defying scientific explanation had occurred. Chakotay's function in the story is more to try to keep the captain grounded in what's scientific, as she had been to date. Could it have been better, if the roles had been reversed, with Chakotay as the one willing to risk his life on something he could not explain, to save Kes? Maybe, maybe not. It would have depended on the execution. I believe it would have required a more fully developed conception of Chakotay to have made such an alteration work.

 

[Astra]

Do you mean this tweet? https://twitter.com/robertbeltran74/status/1234567294438690816 if so I don't see how it connects to exchange earlier, but some of the tweets were deleted so we might not be getting the full story.

Not this one but another one that was made around the same time when none of us knew the things we do know now and so I find it unfair to dig these up just to stir more trouble.

Agreed, it mainly bad writing and the fact the Native American "expert" they hired turned out to be fraud is what failed Chakotay & Beltran, its not that his anger isn't justified or understandable but taking that out on fans is what crosses the line for me.

Actually I got the impression that while his beefes were with the show and the quality of writing, he has always said that he's thankful for the fans and how loyal they are. Surely he wouldn't keep doing conventions if it was otherwise? Everyone I know has only to say the best things about him.

I'm very new at this but apparently he's chatted frequently on Twitter and I fear that this will drive him away for good

 

[Court_Vince]

Not this one but another one that was made around the same time when none of us knew the things we do know now and so I find it unfair to dig these up just to stir more trouble.


Actually I got the impression that while his beefes were with the show and the quality of writing, he has always said that he's thankful for the fans and how loyal they are. Surely he wouldn't keep doing conventions if it was otherwise? Everyone I know has only to say the best things about him.

I'm very new at this but apparently he's chatted frequently on Twitter and I fear that this will drive him away for good

I don't think it ill drive him away permanently, from I can tell his feed has relatively gone back to normal. As for the fan part, in the exchange between him the other users he mentions that during the back-and-forth between them, but this is (hopefully) an isolated indecent that isn't indicative of his personality.

 

[at Quark's]

But most of the time Sisko did not embrace his role as Emissary of the Prophets. He knew that while the Bajorans worshipped them as gods, he understood that they were just aliens. So he wasn’t a very ‘spiritual’ person in that regard.

I don't think it is terribly interesting what Sisko himself believed the wormhole aliens were. Believing they were gods wouldn't have made him more spiritual, believing they were aliens didn't make him less so, in my view. It's his attitude I'm interested in in rating his spirituality, not so much his personal beliefs. To give a counterexample, Kai Winn seems to have been actually believed what the Bajoran religion told her about the Prophets even if she was also always looking what she could get out of it. Still I'd rate her as way less spiritual than Sisko in all of this. In the end, he still accepted the guidance of these wormhole aliens in his life. even though he struggled mightily with his 'Emissary' role.

One of my favorite episodes of VOY is "Sacred Ground." Between Janeway and Chakotay, it's Janeway who comes out in the end more as one seriously entertaining the idea that something defying scientific explanation had occurred. Chakotay's function in the story is more to try to keep the captain grounded in what's scientific, as she had been to date. Could it have been better, if the roles had been reversed, with Chakotay as the one willing to risk his life on something he could not explain, to save Kes? Maybe, maybe not. It would have depended on the execution. I believe it would have required a more fully developed conception of Chakotay to have made such an alteration work.

I didn't care particularly for the end of that episode, leaving Janeway doubting. I found the attitudes of the entities in her supposedly mystical ritual way more interesting, telling her that they were just following her expectations of it, and that 'the ritual is meaningless'. So, you have the population that believes in Ancestral Spirits and all that, Janeway that doubts it, but decides to go along, and then you have the actual Ancestral Spirits (or whatever they were, they might just have been figments of Janeways imagination), that seemed way more down to earth than Janeway herself.

 

[F. King Daniel]

This guy returned for a fan film a few years ago. It was probably more an excuse to catch up with a few old friends more than anything else, but still.

 

[Lynx]

Arguing with fans is not a good thing but since I don't know what has really happened between Beltran and some fans, I won't comment more on this issue until I have more details.

However, I can still understand Beltran's frustration about some aspects of the show.